Told Ya!!!!!!!!

[Fozzy]

Troll? I am not so sure. Flightbag is just letting off some steam. All these years of listening to all the other frac's questions about OUR contract. "When is that contract going to be done so we can get a raise?". "Why are you guys with the IBT, they don't do anything for you? Look at your pay, we are getting more."

Well now look at you all. Ya, he might have been a bit harsh, but the truth hurts. Didn't you all have a chance to go union??? Didn't you vote it down???

And now you are up the creek with no padel (contract). Sorry, I don't feel sorry for you all.

Prove him and us all wrong. Fight for yourselves, not with us. We have a big enough battle without your whinning pilot group. If you are up for the fight, and it will be a battle, we can help. But untill that time, stop whinning and get to work.

 

[Flightbag]

Hey FracCapt:

I also hope I meet you on the road. I prefer face to face meetings myself. What do you fly?

Just so you don't get the wrong idea, I have said what I wrote on this BB to many a FLOPS pilot face to face. That was back a while ago when you guys were farting through silk. I guess the Ricci cool aid got rancid huh.

Flightbag

 

[Live4flyng]

Attention FLOPS pilots

http://www.njasap.com/archives/wooden.html

You need to read this.

 

[hawkercpt]

well

we could, but a user name and password are needed. So, either post us one or cut and paste what it is.

 

[choppengruven]

Flightbag

All you chumps at FLOPS decided to not have a union so stop your bitch'n.

It's my guess, you FLOPS pilots don't have the courage, smarts or moxie to help yourselves.

You are doing nothing for yourself by delibertly taking personalattacksagainst another pilot group. You sound sour in the worst wayman. Takeabreak man grab a beer drink it till its gone and relax,thenshove thatbottle right up your ass till it reaches that stiff neck ofyours.

Flame suit on and fully charged.

 

[Flightbag]

Choppengruven:

I'm not sour at all, just realistic.

By the way, all that sweet talk isn't going to get you anywhere with me.

Flightbag

 

[choppengruven]

Just looking for your sweet spot thats all

 

[On Your Six]

Choppengruven:

I'm not sour at all, just realistic.

By the way, all that sweet talk isn't going to get you anywhere with me.

Flightbag

Can't you just feel the love?

Hey, it's true that FLOPS should have joined a union long ago for protection, but that ship has sailed and now something needs to be done besides just the constant b!tching that we are hearing. What sorts of proactive things can FLOPS crewmembers do now? It sounds like the situation at FLOPS is a lot worse than we all thought....

 

[Live4flyng]

we could, but a user name and password are needed. So, either post us one or cut and paste what it is.

Try thhttp://www.fracpilot.com/fromwoodenwings.pdf

Or go to www.fracpilot.com and scroll down about half way on the right side of the page "From Wooden Wings"

 

[minimums]

All you chumps at FLOPS decided to not have a union so stop your bitch'n.

This isn't quite true. A vote took place during the Travel Air days. That vote failed. It is my guess that it failed because of the lack of success by the Teamsters at NJ's. Your old MEC and Union let you down.

A while back many a FLOPS pilot asked me when we were going to get a contract because Ricci had said he'd pay you better. I used to reply "oh, you want us to do the heavy lifting so you can reap the rewards".

This was a true statement 2+ years ago when Ricci was at the helm. Ever since then, I have heard the same nonsense coming from a few, select pilots. That promise went out the window with the change in leadership and management.

Bear in mind, ASAP didn't just show up, it took hard work and sacrafice by a lot of folks. It was financed by donations from dedicated pilots, who's families did without to make it happen.

You are right. Everyone involved with ASAP deserves kudos. I just hope that they are successful in their intentions and the Teamsters work with your MEC.

It's my guess, you FLOPS pilots don't have the courage, smarts or moxie to help yourselves.Flightbag

This is like saying that all 2000 of NJ's pilots were instrumental in organizing and creating ASAP. I am sure that it was a select few pilots and their families that put blood, sweat, and tears into this organization. Just because one of our idiot pilots spouts off and acts like a fool, it doesn't mean we are all illegitimate children. I have sat around and drank many "beverages" with guys and gals from all the fractionals, and you know what? We aren't all that different, it's just the management that is different.

Fly safe.

 

[Live4flyng]

This isn't quite true. A vote took place during the Travel Air days. That vote failed. It is my guess that it failed because of the lack of success by the Teamsters at NJ's. Your old MEC and Union let you down.

And this isn't quite true either. "A vote took place during the Travel Air days." It didn't fail because of a lack of success by the Teamsters at NJA, we had not even begun negotiations on the contract at the time. How can you measure success that way and use it as an excuse for a failed vote? Our old MEC is gone and so is the old union! Strong Union was formed by the pilot group and to this day is funded by the pilot group until we have our own Local. NJA pilots have overcome some huge hurdles despite the company, MEC and Local. If we can overcome those 3 major things, a small pilot group of 900 or so should be able to send in a DAM card. It's your future and time is ticking!

 

[leardawg]

Hey Flightbag! Take a chill pill! By the looks of your experience, it looks light you've been around for a while, so it's kind of sad to see you so bitter and caustic after a lengthy career (almost makes me want to quit flying before I wind up as a cantankerous old fart myself!).

As far as forming a union is concerned, you can't paint all of us FLOPS guys with the same brush. There are many who would consider a union, but who aren't particularly wild about IBT. Others do not want a union for a number of reasons ( some, especially ex-military types, consider it anathema). I respect differing opinions on both sides of the argument, but I (as well as many others I have talked to) are gradually coming around to the conclusion that some kind of representation is going to be necessary if we are going to stay at FLOPS for any length of time. I am open to a fractional pilots union negotiating reasonable solutions to our complaints, from a position of strength and mutual respect. I am not interested in management bashing, protecting the incompetent, or making unreasonable demands (there are always those whom, after being told they will only have to fly on Tuesdays and Thursdays and get paid $300,000 a year, will raise a stink about being made to fly on Thursdays!). I do feel we have legitimate gripes (the list of which seems to be growing daily, lately), but am under no illusion that any union is going to wave a magic wand and make them all go away. Nobody, including Flight Options, owes me a living. I do believe that if they want someone to work for them, it is within that person's right to ask for adequate compensation and working conditions. If their response is for us to go s**t in our hats, then I will find employement elsewhere (or see the threat of enough people doing so to make them change their stance). It's that plain and simple, without having to resort to name calling and the pounding of fists on the table. I have other "irons in the fire", and EVERY pilot I know at FLOPS is actively looking for something else. We're just waiting to see what happens in the next few months before making a decision of whether or not to move on to another job (with a whole new set of gripes!).





















9

 

[minimums]

Live4

And this isn't quite true either. "A vote took place during the Travel Air days." It didn't fail because of a lack of success by the Teamsters at NJA, we had not even begun negotiations on the contract at the time. How can you measure success that way and use it as an excuse for a failed vote? Our old MEC is gone and so is the old union! Strong Union was formed by the pilot group and to this day is funded by the pilot group until we have our own Local. NJA pilots have overcome some huge hurdles despite the company, MEC and Local. If we can overcome those 3 major things, a small pilot group of 900 or so should be able to send in a DAM card. It's your future and time is ticking!

As I stated, "It was MY guess". Just a guess because I didn't work for Travel Air. Your "original" contract was what many consider "sub-par". In pay, it definately was, you deserve to be paid more than you are. But, in the same breath, it is a contract and what you have is yours, it can't be taken away. I would say that it is a double-edge sword. The fact is, I sent in my card over 2 years ago. We haven't heard anything from Don T. since March 4, 2004.

I can not force each pilot to sign a card and send it in. They will have to make the decision themselves, which shouldn't be hard to do considering the state of things at FLOPS.

I just don't understand the mentality of some people who belittle others on this board. When is the "mine's bigger than yours" kindergarden mentality going to change? If the pilot groups are divided, then management wins.

 

[Live4flyng]

I wasn't trying to belittle you at all. I agree about the unity issue and NJA pilots are more united now than they have ever been. The contract we have in my opinion is not a double edged sword at all. The only way it can be changed is through negotiations or a legal job action. There are many things that need to be changed in it, but we are protected against any last minute decisions by management to change our work rules and pay (even though it sucks). One more thing about our current contract, it was ratified in 1998. Most of the guys who ratified it are/were working for the airlines and some came back to NJA after 9/11. I would hate to see 900+ pilots lose their jobs overnight because management isn't being truthful. If you are organized, it may make life a little easier if you were to be aquired by another company.

 

[minimums]

I wasn't trying to belittle you at all. I agree about the unity issue and NJA pilots are more united now than they have ever been. The contract we have in my opinion is not a double edged sword at all. The only way it can be changed is through negotiations or a legal job action. There are many things that need to be changed in it, but we are protected against any last minute decisions by management to change our work rules and pay (even though it sucks). One more thing about our current contract, it was ratified in 1998. Most of the guys who ratified it are/were working for the airlines and some came back to NJA after 9/11. I would hate to see 900+ pilots lose their jobs overnight because management isn't being truthful. If you are organized, it may make life a little easier if you were to be aquired by another company.

I agree. I hope others will wake up soon and join reality.

 

[FracCapt]

Hey FracCapt:

I also hope I meet you on the road. I prefer face to face meetings myself. What do you fly?

Hawker. Sometimes the 800, sometimes the XP. If you see a guy with a nearly shaved head(think first day in boot camp haircut) in a FLOPS Hawker, come on over and see if it's me.

 

[hawkercpt]

or

look for a guy with longer black hair with a bad attitude in a flops hawker. I'd like a word with you as well.

 

[FracCapt]

look for a guy with longer black hair with a bad attitude in a flops hawker. I'd like a word with you as well.

I can vouch for that.

 

[leardawg]

You guys won't get an answer; the booze has worn off by now.

 

[Flightbag]

Hey FracCapt & hawkercpt:

I'll look for both of your bad asses. We should be able to have a meaningful conversation.

I can certainly understand the bad attiude. I'd have a bad attitude also if I were you. The difference is, I would attempt to do something about it.

Flightbag