Today is a very important day!!!

[lymanm]

Wow, alot of issues hit home with me on this thread. I've read the new rules and I think I understand them, and obviously plan on following them. However, I would like some feedback on where I'd fit within these new rules:

-Born in Canada
-Legal Native American Indian (Iroquois) & thus have American Permanent Resident Status courtesy of the Jay Treaty of 1794
-obtained my FAA CFI in 2000
-have accumulated 400 dual given during the summers of 2002, 2003 & 2004 in the USA
-have paid US taxes on income earned during these summers
-registered for the Draft (as required by the Permanent Resident Status)

From what I understand, I'll be Cat 2 if/when I undergo training in a large (12.5+) aircraft. As I am still current, I'll be Cat 4 to rent/instruct in an aircraft I'm already qualified for until my currency lapses, in which case I'll revert to a Cat 3. If I'm mistaken, please let me know!

As far as the moral question regarding citizenship goes - PLEASE! I'll venture to guess my family and ancestors can pre-date 99% of posters on this board. Natrually, modern laws say I was born in Canada, and I assume full responsibility of being a non-US citizen when it comes to background checks. While I think this is wildly unfair when applied to my specific situation, I also am not naive to deny that it's a different world in 2004.

For those who say Permanent Residents are "lucky to be here", I advise current citizens to look for a wider perspective and investigate your ancestry. No doubt, you at one time would have been excluded in the exact same way you currently exclude and persecute others.

I've always planned on obtaining citizenship to avoid having to undergo checks such as this. But, in light of this type of preposterous and ineffective regulation, I'm quite happy living out my career in the US as a resident only.

 

[80/20]

Lymanm, asking out of curiosity and not suggesting that you should, would you have to give up your Canadian passport to become a US citizen? How about residents from other countries – anyone?

 

[PNEPilot]

I'm a UK citizen, permanent resident alien, been here eight years...

The US Naturalization process would require me to renounce my British citizenship and hand over my passport to the US authorities, yes.

I could then subsequently apply for a British Passport - that is forever my right since I was born in Britain, however such an application would result in revocation of my American citizenship.

My daughter, born of my American wife in the USA, is automatically an American citizen, of course, and, as my daughter, also has the right live and work in Britain and to hold a British passport as well, without renouncing her American citizenship

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Wow, alot of issues hit home with me on this thread. I've read the new rules and I think I understand them, and obviously plan on following them. However, I would like some feedback on where I'd fit within these new rules:

-Born in Canada
-Legal Native American Indian (Iroquois) & thus have American Permanent Resident Status courtesy of the Jay Treaty of 1794
-obtained my FAA CFI in 2000
-have accumulated 400 dual given during the summers of 2002, 2003 & 2004 in the USA
-have paid US taxes on income earned during these summers
-registered for the Draft (as required by the Permanent Resident Status)

From what I understand, I'll be Cat 2 if/when I undergo training in a large (12.5+) aircraft. As I am still current, I'll be Cat 4 to rent/instruct in an aircraft I'm already qualified for until my currency lapses, in which case I'll revert to a Cat 3. If I'm mistaken, please let me know!

As far as the moral question regarding citizenship goes - PLEASE! I'll venture to guess my family and ancestors can pre-date 99% of posters on this board. Natrually, modern laws say I was born in Canada, and I assume full responsibility of being a non-US citizen when it comes to background checks. While I think this is wildly unfair when applied to my specific situation, I also am not naive to deny that it's a different world in 2004.

For those who say Permanent Residents are "lucky to be here", I advise current citizens to look for a wider perspective and investigate your ancestry. No doubt, you at one time would have been excluded in the exact same way you currently exclude and persecute others.

I've always planned on obtaining citizenship to avoid having to undergo checks such as this. But, in light of this type of preposterous and ineffective regulation, I'm quite happy living out my career in the US as a resident only.

Lymanm,

Indeed, most folks here can trace their ancestry to europe, just as most in the western hemisphere. The main issue that irks me is the fact that we have a huge number of people in our country that moan and complain about this and that.

A few examples,

Currently there is a movement from the right to give LEGAL drivers licenses to ILLEGAL Aliens.

Those same people want to give aliens a LEGAL vote in this country.

In my dippy little hometown of 10000 or so a couple of years back a group not native to the town OR this country wanted the city to post all public signs in both Spanish and English.

And now, after 9/11 we have a group of non native, non citizen residents, and people with work visas all bent out of shape that we want to check on their background.

Somehow they expect us to let them have all the rights and priviledges of a citizen, even though in some cases they do not even want to put enough effort in to even learn the national language. They want to vote on issues in my country and be able to tell me how I should live and act, yet they do not want to give up their "Foreign" status.

If you wish to work or live here, fine. If you wish to keep your Canadian, or UK or whatever passport and citizenship, fine, I can understand your allegiance to your home country. Just don't expect to be treated like you are a citizen of our country when you have no vested interest or desire to become a member of our country.

So I can understand that your ancestry is Native American Indian, and that your ancesters were here before my ancesters were, BUT if you wish to excercise the rights and privledges of your native born ancestry, you must give up your Canadian status and privledges, you cannot have it both ways! Either you ARE a U.S. Citizen, or your are NOT a U.S. Citizen. Until you decide to owe your allegiance to the defense and wellfare of this country, you have no right to complain about how we run OUR country.



P.S. I was in Canada last week, perhaps I should have complained about having to clear customs and do all that paperwork, after all my country used to be a member of the British Empire also, So why do I have to bother with all that formality, they should have just let me in no problem! And what is the deal with the speedlimits posted in Kmh, You guys should really change that to Mph so I don't get confused while I am driving around up there on my U.S. Drivers license. And that whole ICAO phrasiology thing while in Canadian airspace, I say you ought to let me say "position and hold" if I want to!!!! By the way your parliment in Ottawa (sp?) is really off their rocker, where do I send my protest to their latest rulings? I have limited knowledge on how your legal system works but that shouldn't matter because I don't like it anyhow so I want it changed!!

 

[PNEPilot]

I don't think many of us permanent residents have a problem with submitting to a background check - pretty much all of us already did before we got here anyway, so no real harm in doing it again if you really think it's going to help...

what I did object to was the wording of the rule which led me, and many others, including AOPA, to beleive that we would have to go through the whole shenanigans every time we needed a BFR, a rental checkout, or even a quick trip round the pattern with a CFI to practice crosswinds. Until the TSA's responses to comments were published yesterday there was no indication that this was not the case.

I still feel it's a really shabby piece of cobbled together legislation that might have been understandable had it been released on 9/20/2001, but it's disturbing that this is the best they can come up with after three years.

There must be hundreds of thousands of foreign pilots who have quite legitimatley learned to fly in the USA, yet now we are all tarred with the same brush as the four hijackers... and anyone who believes that simply making new rules is going to do anything to stop terrorists is in urgent need of a serious reality check: terrorists carry out their deeds with no regard for laws and rules - Mohammed Atta and his colleagues broke plenty of already exisiting ones.

 

[FlyingToIST]

I have come upon another site that flyingtofisrst has rambled about this EXACT thread word for word using the name Baha which leads me to believe he may be from Mexico be that as it may Baha or flyintofirst,in the interest of full disclosure ... where are you from ??? As far as how long it takes to secure citizenship however long it takes you should go for it or get off the pot . Until then stay off the soap box its starting to teeter totter . BTW Seattle is a beautiful area isn't it?
Los Estados Unidos es un bueno pais ! Buena suerte Baha o Flyintofirst !! Viva Vavso

Sorry no comprende.. The point that I wanted to make was you cannot just show up to take the citizenship test.. If the government allowed me to do so today, I'd run to it. .. Keronsesnorter is making me laugh big time to.. Would you like my address and SSN with it?

 

[buckdanny]

How about residents from other countries – anyone?

I can keep my French citizenship when I become a US citizen in 2006, but will gladely wipe my a$$ with my French passport and send it back to Mr. Chirac American at heart all the way baby! Just born on the wrong side of the pond...

Buck

 

[FL000]

I can keep my French citizenship when I become a US citizen in 2006, but will gladely wipe my a$$ with my French passport and send it back to Mr. Chirac American at heart all the way baby! Just born on the wrong side of the pond...

Buck

Please allow me to be the first to buy you a beer when that happens. Welcome...in advance.

 

[midlifeflyer]

An absolutely incredible number of comments from people who claim to love this great country while vehemently hating the most important things it stands for.

How sad.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Would you like my address and SSN with it?

Nope, but the Feds. do before your next training cycle.