To all CAL guys... from a furloughed pilot

[talespin]

what do you expect.
The senior pilots at CAL were from the SCAB ranks.
Now many of those SCABS call them self union men. Do you think that they really care about any one else but them self at the cost of others.

No, but we finally out number the SCABS and as a younger group that is sick of eating sh!t we can make a change for the better. I believe any contract is better than the lack of one we have now, however I say we leave nothing on the table. We can put the right people in place, it takes a vote!

I've had a few on my jump seat lately and it's amazing the deer in the headlight look they give me when I tell them, "This younger pilot group out numbers you old guys". "Oh by the way we don't give a rats @ss about your A fund". I usually get "well well you should, we should try and get that back for you guys". yada yada yada! The non Scabs "A" funders will at least admit they f#%k up!

Anyway we need to stand together, stay strong and get our guys back to work ASAP. Some work rules would be nice also!

 

[flygirlqt]

No, but we finally out number the SCABS and as a younger group that is sick of eating sh!t we can make a change for the better. I believe any contract is better than the lack of one we have now, however I say we leave nothing on the table. We can put the right people in place, it takes a vote!

I've had a few on my jump seat lately and it's amazing the deer in the headlight look they give me when I tell them, "This younger pilot group out numbers you old guys". "Oh by the way we don't give a rats @ss about your A fund". I usually get "well well you should, we should try and get that back for you guys". yada yada yada! The non Scabs "A" funders will at least admit they f#%k up!

Anyway we need to stand together, stay strong and get our guys back to work ASAP. Some work rules would be nice also!

You had better start coming up with some better excuses or different scapegoats for the pending contract disaster. The scabs were far outnumbered during the last contract and look what happened. The same old song and dance was bantered about then how the young blood was going to change everything. The end result was contract 02 because many junior pilots fell for the same fear grenades launched by management and pathetically also by ALPA National and CALALPA.

History has already repeated itself and management has taken it one step further to cut loose 148 pilots. The union practically broke their arm patting themselves on the back with the blastmail about the number of jobs they saved. Couple that with the ineffectual union called CALALPA with essentially a dead SPSC committee, a non existent strike committee and a dysfunctional MEC. Where is all this new blood fixing these repeated problems within CALALPA? Fact is, the union already has new blood in there and the ripoffs, incompetence and ineffectual leadership continues.

Your post also is contradicting about standing together. You claim you want to stand together but your tone is nothing but divisive. The A fund issues are just as important to the senior pilots as job security issues are for junior pilots. Do you want the "old guys" to not "give a rats ass" about scope, furlough or longevity protections for the "younger guys"? For a pilot with your union experience to talk and think like that puts you on the same level as the opportunists in our ranks.

I have seen the same sense of entitlement and arrogance from some new hires that the scabs I have flown with display. What is even more eye opening is the scabs were right about ALPA watching the train wreck at Continental, National's politics and their feather bedding.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

To those who think 'I should've known what CAL was like before i came here'. Ummm right, like you knew exactly everything (including the contract) when you got hired at your airline. Of course you did

Besides, it's different when you look at CAL from the outside and when you're swimming in this sh.. inside. Sure i knew about $32/hr and no health care, but the sad contract nonsense just piles up one after another

Needless to say, I never regretted anything in my career as i regret being at CAL, and it's a shame to even think that (considering there are so many out there wishing to be here). It's ok, i'll free up a spot here sooner or later. You learn and move on. And no, it's not a whining post. It's a reality check for those who are thinking about coming here

 

[talespin]

You had better start coming up with some better excuses or different scapegoats for the pending contract disaster. The scabs were far outnumbered during the last contract and look what happened. The same old song and dance was bantered about then how the young blood was going to change everything. The end result was contract 02 because many junior pilots fell for the same fear grenades launched by management and pathetically also by ALPA National and CALALPA.

History has already repeated itself and management has taken it one step further to cut loose 148 pilots. The union practically broke their arm patting themselves on the back with the blastmail about the number of jobs they saved. Couple that with the ineffectual union called CALALPA with essentially a dead SPSC committee, a non existent strike committee and a dysfunctional MEC. Where is all this new blood fixing these repeated problems within CALALPA? Fact is, the union already has new blood in there and the ripoffs, incompetence and ineffectual leadership continues.

Your post also is contradicting about standing together. You claim you want to stand together but your tone is nothing but divisive. The A fund issues are just as important to the senior pilots as job security issues are for junior pilots. Do you want the "old guys" to not "give a rats ass" about scope, furlough or longevity protections for the "younger guys"? For a pilot with your union experience to talk and think like that puts you on the same level as the opportunists in our ranks.

I have seen the same sense of entitlement and arrogance from some new hires that the scabs I have flown with display. What is even more eye opening is the scabs were right about ALPA watching the train wreck at Continental, National's politics and their feather bedding.

I didn't say we were going to change things, I said we could. I'm only trying to educated the uneducated while I have them in the seat for a few hours. I would just prefer they would admit they screwed up and we could move on. They only think of themselves, always have always will.

We are divided but hopefully on our side. Say NO to a 150% pay for the right seat time, NO to picking up open time, and certainly NO to the first TA.

I'm just as worried as the next guy about this contract. I won't settle for less than what we deserve, even if I have to give up my job. I want the career back that we all singed up for not the run of the mill job it's become.

You like chewing up my post but you offer nothing. What do you suggest? Are you a SCAB?

 

[BID]

To those who think 'I should've known what CAL was like before i came here'. Ummm right, like you knew exactly everything (including the contract) when you got hired at your airline. Of course you did

Besides, it's different when you look at CAL from the outside and when you're swimming in this sh.. inside. Sure i knew about $32/hr and no health care, but the sad contract nonsense just piles up one after another

Needless to say, I never regretted anything in my career as i regret being at CAL, and it's a shame to even think that (considering there are so many out there wishing to be here). It's ok, i'll free up a spot here sooner or later. You learn and move on. And no, it's not a whining post. It's a reality check for those who are thinking about coming here

I really like working at CAL. I agree with the part of the bad contract, it is worthless. But what in this industry is concrete and forever? I look forward to a new contract but there are believe it or not positive things at CAL!

 

[007]

Do you want the "old guys" to not "give a rats ass" about scope, furlough or longevity protections for the "younger guys"?

Oh, when did they start to?

 

[flygirlqt]

I didn't say we were going to change things, I said we could. I'm only trying to educated the uneducated while I have them in the seat for a few hours.

I don't agree with your version of education, especially after reading your post. I also think you're are preaching about false messiahs on the property that are going to overwhelm and change the pathetic status quo within CALALPA and ALPA National.

The problem is not with scabs, but it is deep seated problems of apathy borne by years of mistrust created by ALPA politics, political shenanigans and favoritism. Compounding the problem we have the behavior of CALALPA prior to contract 02 with the trip loss scandal and other areas of deception, lackluster performance and outright incompetence that is still continuing today.

I would just prefer they would admit they screwed up and we could move on.

You want people to admit to screwing up but where is your demand for accountability from ALPA for their actions prior to contract 02. While you are at it, how about getting ALPA to admit to the very damaging things to our careers that have transpired since, like age 65?

They only think of themselves, always have always will.

Your words betray you because I would say the same about you. You will never get people on your side with your divide and conquer thinking. More importantly though, we will never pull together as a whole with that manner of opinion.

We are divided but hopefully on our side. Say NO to a 150% pay for the right seat time, NO to picking up open time, and certainly NO to the first TA.

The interesting thing about the right seat, VJM and open time pick up is very few scabs have been doing this. I watched the pools and open time in August out of morbid curiosity and there were only 4 or 5 of the scabs that came up. I was up to about 55 names that were not 83 - 85 hires that were continually acting as company saviors.

Voting No means nothing without a credible strike threat or job action. With the state of SPSC and the P2P program management doesn't care about a no vote. In fact they will welcome it.

I'm just as worried as the next guy about this contract. I won't settle for less than what we deserve, even if I have to give up my job. I want the career back that we all singed up for not the run of the mill job it's become.

No disagreement there with me. But thinking this new blood is going to be some magic cure all or alienating segments of the list will not achieve that.

You like chewing up my post but you offer nothing. What do you suggest?

Your post is the least of what I take an issue with. It is your attitude.and divisiveness. I would suggest the first thing would be to toss your B3rd mentality and realize that to obtain the contract we deserve that every ones issues are important. I seriously take offense to your attitude of throwing any segment under the bus, no matter what excuse there is.

Are you a SCAB?

Now that is a very ignorant assumption. Does anyone that disagrees with your ideals, tactics and opinions are then labeled or assumed to be a scab? Just to humor you, I was in grade school in 1983

I have said it before I will say it again. When you talk to some of the more rational ones from the 83 -85 era, it is very frightening when you listen to their views about ALPA. They bring up the same problems they either experienced or discuss about ALPA happening today as it was 25 years ago within the union. Putting the rhetoric aside, that is not a good sign.

You and I want the same goals, but we are diametrically opposed in the methods of getting there.

 

[bizicmo]

I didn't say we were going to change things, I said we could. I'm only trying to educated the uneducated while I have them in the seat for a few hours. I would just prefer they would admit they screwed up and we could move on. They only think of themselves, always have always will.

We are divided but hopefully on our side. Say NO to a 150% pay for the right seat time, NO to picking up open time, and certainly NO to the first TA.

I'm just as worried as the next guy about this contract. I won't settle for less than what we deserve, even if I have to give up my job. I want the career back that we all singed up for not the run of the mill job it's become.

You like chewing up my post but you offer nothing. What do you suggest? Are you a SCAB?

Dude, are you on drugs??? All you talk about are scabs and question everyone else about whether or not they are one. Are you related to Joseph McCarthy by chance?

 

[IAHERJ]

To those who think 'I should've known what CAL was like before i came here'. Ummm right, like you knew exactly everything (including the contract) when you got hired at your airline. Of course you did

Besides, it's different when you look at CAL from the outside and when you're swimming in this sh.. inside. Sure i knew about $32/hr and no health care, but the sad contract nonsense just piles up one after another

Needless to say, I never regretted anything in my career as i regret being at CAL, and it's a shame to even think that (considering there are so many out there wishing to be here). It's ok, i'll free up a spot here sooner or later. You learn and move on. And no, it's not a whining post. It's a reality check for those who are thinking about coming here

So let me get this straight. You want me and others to "fix" the problems so you have something acceptable to come back to yet you are still going to trash CAL and are looking for something different on a permanent basis? I can promise you we are going to get a lot better contract this go around but I can also promise you that I will not have your interests in mind at all given your ranting. I'm sorry you were hired less than a year ago at the tail end of a hiring wave and probably spent what 7-11 months riding the bottom trips on the 757/767 to the UK. If you had been hired a year earlier would you be so doom and gloom and anti-CAL? I doubt it. You got a raw deal based on timing(nothing you could have done about it). Do we have problems? Yes! Are we fixing these problems, you bet. Sorry you do not have a job here right now. The company already showed their hand and we know there is a good possibility of getting all of you back over the next year while at the same time addressing many quality of life issues immediately. We will do our part and you can chose to either be bitter and throw pop shots from the sidelines or do what you can in the meantime for you(while I pitch in for your healthcare as I voted for the deal) and look forward to coming back to a better CAL. If you are gone for good, please refrain from bashing this company and our pilot group. It does nothing for your Karma....

IAHERJ

 

[talespin]

I don't agree with your version of education, especially after reading your post. I also think you're are preaching about false messiahs on the property that are going to overwhelm and change the pathetic status quo within CALALPA and ALPA National.

The problem is not with scabs, but it is deep seated problems of apathy borne by years of mistrust created by ALPA politics, political shenanigans and favoritism. Compounding the problem we have the behavior of CALALPA prior to contract 02 with the trip loss scandal and other areas of deception, lackluster performance and outright incompetence that is still continuing today.



You want people to admit to screwing up but where is your demand for accountability from ALPA for their actions prior to contract 02. While you are at it, how about getting ALPA to admit to the very damaging things to our careers that have transpired since, like age 65?



Your words betray you because I would say the same about you. You will never get people on your side with your divide and conquer thinking. More importantly though, we will never pull together as a whole with that manner of opinion.




The interesting thing about the right seat, VJM and open time pick up is very few scabs have been doing this. I watched the pools and open time in August out of morbid curiosity and there were only 4 or 5 of the scabs that came up. I was up to about 55 names that were not 83 - 85 hires that were continually acting as company saviors.

Voting No means nothing without a credible strike threat or job action. With the state of SPSC and the P2P program management doesn't care about a no vote. In fact they will welcome it.




No disagreement there with me. But thinking this new blood is going to be some magic cure all or alienating segments of the list will not achieve that.



Your post is the least of what I take an issue with. It is your attitude.and divisiveness. I would suggest the first thing would be to toss your B3rd mentality and realize that to obtain the contract we deserve that every ones issues are important. I seriously take offense to your attitude of throwing any segment under the bus, no matter what excuse there is.



Now that is a very ignorant assumption. Does anyone that disagrees with your ideals, tactics and opinions are then labeled or assumed to be a scab? Just to humor you, I was in grade school in 1983

I have said it before I will say it again. When you talk to some of the more rational ones from the 83 -85 era, it is very frightening when you listen to their views about ALPA. They bring up the same problems they either experienced or discuss about ALPA happening today as it was 25 years ago within the union. Putting the rhetoric aside, that is not a good sign.

You and I want the same goals, but we are diametrically opposed in the methods of getting there.

Your points are well taken.

I'm not aiming at scabs but at the mentality that is scab like. I agree about the 150% being mostly non scabs but it is scab mentality, especially when we were on the eve of a furlough.

I've been an ALPA member for over ten years. Do I like them, no not really. They screwed everyone of us with age 65 and I think we all know they don't have our best interest in mind. Unfortunately they are all we have at this time. It's kind of like the government, never mind I'll open that can of worms some other time.

I would rather we were all on the same page but the simple fact is we have an infestation that festers still today. Some would have you believe if weren't for them Continental would have been long gone. No matter how bad things are you should never fall to that level. I'm willing to listen to any reasonable effort to make this a better contract with our brothers and sisters standing together, but I'm not willing to sit silent and let the cards fall where they fall. I would love to sit by the fire and sing together but you know there are some who would steal our chocolate while we roast our marshmallows.

 

[talespin]

Dude, are you on drugs??? All you talk about are scabs and question everyone else about whether or not they are one. Are you related to Joseph McCarthy by chance?

It's the mentality that makes the person what they are or are not. I'm not questioning if everyone is a scab or not, I'm questioning the mind set. When we have guys and girls about to loose their jobs and some of their fellow pilots are lining their own pockets off their backs is pretty much what a scab would do, don't you think?

Drugs no! but I probably should be because I'm waisting my time with this reply.

 

[contrail67]

Glad I turned them down last year...............

You got hired and turned them down?....don't hear that much.

 

[100/hour/5y]

You got hired and turned them down?....don't hear that much.

I had 3 friends that turned down CAL to go to NWA... Tried to talk them out of it, but now wish I had went to NWA...
CAL has a long way to go... I would leave right now if I can get on with DL, SWA or FedEx, In fact I would leave up to my 4th year at CAL and at anytime to FedEX

 

[flygirlqt]

Flygirlqt has been a scab apologist ever since she got hired at CAL. She is a "future scab" as sure as the sun rises in the east. We have a scab out here in Guam (who is STILL proud of what he accomplished as an MEC member during POS 02) who tells everyone and anyone that we will be lucky to hold onto what we have.... McCarthy was a prophetic American. With his upbringing, it's no wonder he was able to sniff out all that corruption. God bless the Fox Valley.

No Steve, I am just not as ignorant as you are and can actually form my own opinions of people regardless of their past. I actually believe tools like yourself actually are a greater impediment to a decent contact.

As far as future scabbing, my father was a rEAL pilot and I am in law school at this point so put your (minuscule) johnson back in your shorts with your wet dream. I'd kick you right in your nutsack if you ever dared to say that to my face.

It has always amazed me how shortsighted people are (like yourself) when it comes to fighting management instead of people that were here long before you or I arrived. Further neither of us can do a damn thing about it.

 

[AWACoff]

How can you live with your statements about scabs being some of the nicest people you've flown with when you father was a rEAL pilot??? Why is it when I notice bizarre behavior, more often than not that person turns out to be a scab??? Those people just ain't right. The worst thing of all is when your ex-girlfriend is on the same message board and has to "out" a guys lack of size. I swear it was like throwing a hotdog down a hallway! Honestly!

As far as not being able to do anything about fighting management...that is a defeatist attitude. With that kind of attitude, tools like yourself will be quite successful at POS '08.