To all CAL guys... from a furloughed pilot

[vtwo]

Flygirlqt has been a scab apologist ever since she got hired at CAL. She is a "future scab" as sure as the sun rises in the east. We have a scab out here in Guam (who is STILL proud of what he accomplished as an MEC member during POS 02) who tells everyone and anyone that we will be lucky to hold onto what we have.... McCarthy was a prophetic American. With his upbringing, it's no wonder he was able to sniff out all that corruption. God bless the Fox Valley.

Are the initials of the Guam SCAB?
A C?

 

[talespin]

tttttttttt



That is all I can ask and hope to achieve. I appreciate you listening to in the least another point of view unlike your other former awac counterpart Steve above.





I'm all about another point but I feel I need to give you a little history about me.

I wasn't much older than you in 1983 and true it wasn't my fight, but I was there. I come from a family who believes in the unity of the group, not the himself/herself attitude. My family member didn't cross the line in 1983 and by doing so never went back to CAL. I was barley out of grade school in 1983 but every Tuesday I was walking the line with a sign in my hand, with all the others, whom in my opinion have great integrity. It was an education that will never leave me. It sounds like maybe you were there as well, maybe on the other side of the line? Only you know what your family could or couldn't live with out. I understand you feel you have to support the decision that was made in 1983, and I know it must be a horrible thing to have at your door everyday. You don't need to defend your family member to me, it would be better you just kept that to yourself/family. I mean no disrespect to you and if I'm way off base than I apologize. After reading yours and AWACoff post it became a little more clear why you took offense to my post. Having said that I will still listen to any reasonable suggestions.

I like many other will never forget or forgive any action taken by a person who will trample his fellow trench mate in order to gain for himself/herself.

 

[CopilotDoug]

You guys can jump all over RIF for posting this, but it is exactly true. One of the only market forces we can control as pilots is not working for companies that treat pilots poorly. But, like he said, there are literally thousands of guys pounding on the door for the same crappy jobs, so this will not change.

WHY WOULD A COMPANY GIVE YOU MORE MONEY???????????? There are thousands of guys willing to take your job if you quit. Good luck. It is sad because I, too, had hoped to transition to commercial flying and be able to make a living wage.

I have to agree with Voice of Reason and Milky. There's no excuse to NOT know what you are getting yourself into. $32/hr first year pay? No health insurance for 6 mos??? BIG Red flag...

As long as there is a line of pilots around the corner who are still mesmerized by the flashing "Legacy Carrier" sign atop the roach motel...don't count on conditions getting better.

Best of Luck getting a new job, WillFlyForFoodNot

 

[whatitdoing?]

You people have no clue what you're talking about. Do things suck at CAL.....right now? HELL YES!! Are we happy, HELL NO!! But to say that CAL is a cockroach airline is clearly wrong. Do things have to improve? Yes they do and will. We're under a POS contract that was signed to "save" the company. Right or wrong, that's the situation. But it's a different pilot group. We're starting to get some really good people in the union and I'm confident that we'll get an improved contract. Can it get any worse? We have...or had....3 year fo's as Capts making over a 140 grand a year. Where else can you say that? We fly modern planes and we have a ton on order. We have 30 or so 787's coming (whenever that is) and the word is that we'll use all options up to 60 of them. Can you say movement? How about all the new 737's coming? Sure it's a 0 net gain since we're getting rid of a bunch, but it's a higher pay scale. A few more years and we'll get the 65 idiots out the door and them BOOM....there's tons of movement. Look, non of us are happy right now, but I'd venture a guess that few are. We're going to turn things around, but to just say that CAL is a roachmotel airline....you're an idiot and obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Do things suck at CAL.....right now? HELL YES!! Are we happy, HELL NO!!

Get used to it. 'Nuff said.

 

[4got2flare]

Things are changing, Slow is an understatement. Glacially is more appropriate.
You must look at the history of the company and the actions of the group then and now. The pilot group has gone from a group that the company can do no wrong to asking questions and not completely burying their head in the sand. Everything takes time...
We have new leadership running for office in EWR, true unionists. We have the junior ranks who make the least $ at the company yet are the majority of the LTVRF's attempting to save some bottom guys job.
The Junior ranks of the the pilot group gave the company the finger for overtime flying. Do you really think Larry wanted to pay CA's 1.5 @ 4:30 per day to run the schedule. When has that happened in the past??
When has the MEC turned down an offer for a pay raise no matter how small to give the company what they wanted?
It is changing... I see it changing, the guys I fly with see it. Maybe if you pull your head out of your a$$ you could see it to.
No one said it was easy, no one said it was fun. Time to think of the pilot group as a whole instead of only thinking about yourself.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Get used to it. 'Nuff said.

Ya, Nuff said.......what have you been saying? Keep blowing smoke out of your arse. You apparently have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Ya, Nuff said.......what have you been saying? Keep blowing smoke out of your arse. You apparently have no idea what you're talking about.

What I'm saying, Whatitdoing, is YOU deserve better pay. Your fellow pilots deserve better pay. BUT...as long as there is a line of pilots around the corner to satiate managements wet dream of low cost labor, you're going to be looking at more of the same for the foreseeable future.

 

[SMOE]

Things are changing, Slow is an understatement. Glacially is more appropriate.
You must look at the history of the company and the actions of the group then and now. The pilot group has gone from a group that the company can do no wrong to asking questions and not completely burying their head in the sand. Everything takes time...
We have new leadership running for office in EWR, true unionists. We have the junior ranks who make the least $ at the company yet are the majority of the LTVRF's attempting to save some bottom guys job.
The Junior ranks of the the pilot group gave the company the finger for overtime flying. Do you really think Larry wanted to pay CA's 1.5 @ 4:30 per day to run the schedule. When has that happened in the past??
When has the MEC turned down an offer for a pay raise no matter how small to give the company what they wanted?
It is changing... I see it changing, the guys I fly with see it. Maybe if you pull your head out of your a$$ you could see it to.
No one said it was easy, no one said it was fun. Time to think of the pilot group as a whole instead of only thinking about yourself.

Best post I've read in a long time.

What's really got me concerned is that Poco Hole Pilot hasn't chimed in yet and we're on page 4...

 

[whatitdoing?]

Look, we're wanting the same thing. It's going to change, but it's going to take awhile. We recently told management to pound sand with their LOA. It completely caught management by suprise because they thought we'd roll over. The key is that we DIDN'T!! Sure, those 148 plus 30 or so question marks are hostages, but that's expected. It a shame, but that's the fact. CAL isn't what it use to be years ago and I firmly believe that whoever is here is going to be in a great position in a few years. As far as the questionable types, you have them at ALL airlines. I've flown with and met them at every airline that I've been on. Whether it's on their j/s or my j/s. Some of the worst have been DL guys and AA guys. So to say that an airline as a whole is a cockroach airline with no future is ignorant. Time will tell. If we don't get huge improvements in our QOL issue with Contract 08, you'll be right and I'll resign. Most of the senior guys or ones that are living outside of their means won't resign, but a HUGE amount of FO's that have started in the last few years will. I refuse to work under another contract like this in the future. If you look at other airlines like DL, AA, Airtran, Southwest, NW, and United....you'll see that it's not all peaches and cream.

 

[waveflyer]

Do you guys see how the pay disparity hurts our leverage as an industry?

First year pay must come up- industry wide- and CAL is one of the biggest offenders in this area. I'm well past 1st year-and i don't work at CAL- i just see how it hurts all of us.

 

[sgmick]

What I'm saying, Whatitdoing, is YOU deserve better pay. Your fellow pilots deserve better pay. BUT...as long as there is a line of pilots around the corner to satiate managements wet dream of low cost labor, you're going to be looking at more of the same for the foreseeable future.

Had a chance to interview in 2006. I ran the numbers and couldnt believe my eyes. Called a week before and said "sorry cant make it", she said when would you like to reschedule? I said never, thank you very much. Silence.......

Best move I ever made.

 

[milky]

You people have no clue what you're talking about. Do things suck at CAL.....right now? HELL YES!! Are we happy, HELL NO!! But to say that CAL is a cockroach airline is clearly wrong. Do things have to improve? Yes they do and will. We're under a POS contract that was signed to "save" the company. Right or wrong, that's the situation. But it's a different pilot group. We're starting to get some really good people in the union and I'm confident that we'll get an improved contract. Can it get any worse? We have...or had....3 year fo's as Capts making over a 140 grand a year. Where else can you say that? We fly modern planes and we have a ton on order. We have 30 or so 787's coming (whenever that is) and the word is that we'll use all options up to 60 of them. Can you say movement? How about all the new 737's coming? Sure it's a 0 net gain since we're getting rid of a bunch, but it's a higher pay scale. A few more years and we'll get the 65 idiots out the door and them BOOM....there's tons of movement. Look, non of us are happy right now, but I'd venture a guess that few are. We're going to turn things around, but to just say that CAL is a roachmotel airline....you're an idiot and obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Why would CAL's management pay more for labor? How many people jumped all over jobs while the wages were rock bottom? You cannot really strike. Most of you need the job and could not afford to just quit and go somewhere else. So, what are you going to do if CAL doesn't raise pay to anythign worthwhile? Sure, they have nice jets. Great. They have nice jets with cheap labor pilots flying them. Will it get a little better? Who knows. Not likely anything that even keeps up with inflation over the last few years since your last contract. I hope I'm wrong. Honestly, I do.

I hope the airlines see that experience actually does count for something and starts paying money and hiring guys with a lot of experience. But, it doesn't look good. Young guys are willing to work for peanuts. Do you think they would turn down your current contract at CAL? No, they would work there in a split second. Living the dream at a Legacy. And a pay raise from 20,000/yr to 30,000/yr. YAHTZEE!

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Why would CAL's management pay more for labor?

Continental management will never pay more for labor on their own accord. The answer to your question, old fashioned hard nosed leveraged bargaining is the only way we are going to get a real contract.

The Railway Labor Act hasn't changed, we still have the ability to strike albeit it's going to be a long wait. Nevertheless we must build a fully functional credible strike threat ASAP. Just the creation of a credible strike threat will derive leverage.

My definition of a real contract? A contact with a substantial increase to Contract 97 pay rates adjusted for inflation, repayment for our pay cut with a healthy increase on top. A contract that includes real work rules for significant increases in quality of life at both home and work. A contract that preserves our frozen "A" fund while also significantly increasing the retirement benefits of all pilots from the most junior to senior. A contract that eliminates our six year "B" scale with reasonable first year pay and insurance from day one.

The only way we are going to get such a contract is if we stand shoulder to shoulder and fight the common enemy - Continental Management. Will we be successful in our contractual demands? I don't know, but I do know,if we don't all band to together and unify quickly, behind a competent strong MEC we will surely fail and once again management will win.

Have you had enough yet? Baron/Cook 2008 - www.jaysonbaron.info www.taracook.info

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Kaye Riggs for EWR LC 170 Secretary/Treasurer​

Hello, and thanks for taking a few moments to read this. My name is Kaye Riggs and I am running for LC 170 Secretary/Treasurer.

If you’ve been around at least since the Contract ’02 debacle, you may have noticed that, for some reason, we continue to give ground to management. In the labor relations circle, give and take is the accepted norm. We have stepped outside that norm in that the standard practice today is for us to give and management to take. This process must stop and must be reversed; it is time for US to take.

As Secretary/Treasurer I will help create a superior communications system with weekly (or more frequently as required) blast mails, a Code-a-Phone, and an outstanding website. Communications, education, and calls to action will be the new normal way of doing business. I believe that communications and education is the only way to reengage our pilots and give us the backing we will need to return our profession to the place of honor it rightfully held in the past.

Make no mistake, there is a big job lying ahead for all of us. The job of the union should be to lead and direct the pilots in ways that will pay dividends as we approach the amendable date of Contract ’02. Presently, we have leadership who falls back on the Partnership Accord at every turn, using this document as an excuse for inaction. This leadership must either change or get out of the way. The days of the pilots sitting back and taking what comes must end. If you want the fruits of our profession, you must make the sacrifice now.

I am proud to be running for office on the same ballot as Jayson Baron and Tara Cook. We are blessed to have such high-quality individuals step forward at this particular moment. Sometimes things come together in just the right way and at the perfect time. This is one such time. We have pilots paying attention like never before and demanding a union response to a whole host of company-created problems—everything from furloughs to the decimation of our lifestyles via PBS.

You should have recently received a blank nominating ballot. This ballot is the first step of our journey to take back our union and our profession. Please fill in the names of Jayson Baron for EWR Captain representative, Tara Cook for First Officer representative, and Kaye Riggs for Secretary/Treasurer and either return it by mail in the pre-addressed envelope or bring it in person to the EWR LC meeting on September 29th.

Thank you.

Kaye Riggs

Kaye Riggs has been a pilot for Continental Airlines for over 21 years. Prior to that he held flying positions at several commuter airlines and at a Grand Canyon tour operator. Before he made the decision to pursue a flying career, he was in law enforcement in Southern California.

 

[flygirlqt]

The only way we are going to get such a contract is if we stand shoulder to shoulder and fight the common enemy - Continental Management. Will we be successful in our contractual demands? I don't know, but I do know,if we don't all band to together and unify quickly, behind a competent strong MEC we will surely fail and once again management will win.

The above comment is my only motivation to defend anyone. It is the cornerstone an key to extracting anything out of Continental Management. All management ever truly fears is a unified force.

Meat:

I had a long winded response but the above states my only desires perfectly.

Talespin

I appreciate your apology but none is needed. At least you are man enough to say something unlike my buddy in Guam. I'll give him the benefit of doubt because he might be having his earlobe reduction surgery today and can't reply.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I just couldn't let these go hairpiece man. Or is that just a really bad comb over? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

WS is not a scab since he was hired in June of 87. He also was not on the MEC but the LEC Captain representative. The 3 former MEC members are all Houston based and never flew in GUM

You are so ignorant you can't even keep your facts straight. Do you have the balls to tell him this in person or do you just stroke yourself on these forums to make yourself sound like a tough guy?

I don't believe he is talking about WS the current CA rep. He is talking about Bob S, the former FO rep in IAH CA during the Contract 02 debacle, who is now a GUM CA.

This is the one and only Bob S who was highlighted in the Fagone FPL Abuse report for unethical behavior. He is also is infamous pilot who stole an ipod from a passenger and attempted to blame it on the IRO.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

IAHERJ, I had no problem supporting and fighting for a new contract at my old commuter. I picketed with signs a bunch of times, having ALPA promise wonders. In the end, everything APLA promised failed and that commuter is almost diminished now with another, new one on the side. I have a hard time believing in ALPA anymore.. Do you trully believe they'll put their heads on the line and butthead with mgm over the contract?

And no I haven't left yet, but I'm gearing up to. Why? Because like many other pilots i've talked to around here, if nothing changes this time i don't wanna waste a day stiking around.

100/hour/5y is right.. if it wasn't for noone hiring in US, people would bail like ants. That's how bad it is here now. It's the best company out there, with the worst contract i've ever seen

 

[Kugelblitz]

Though the state of the profession is appalling, I have to wonder how it is you accepted a position there? I don't think there is anyone on this board from any aspect of the industry that doesn't know CO starting rate or that they don't have insurance for 6 months...

So tell me... did you not KNOW any of this before you elected to accept the position?

Tell me also what committees did you serve on in YOUR union to fight for change? (or did you expect the government to do it FOR you)?

Yes, pathetic state of the profession, but as long as there are people clamoring to accept that status, you aren't helping, and can't claim "Oh, I'm a lib I didn't KNOOOOOOWWWWWW they were doing to do that to me....waah".

If one wanted to portray oneself as an insensitive, nihilistic jerk I don't know what one could do to outdo this post by what I suppose is an angry poser. No one with any real experience in this industry, who understands the scarcity of work, the demands on ones' personal time and family could possibly make a posting like this. Apparently everyone that makes this bitter, insufferable individual angry is a stupid liberal.

As a pilot who has undergone your travails 'Fly for Food' I certainly understand your predicament and your feelings right now. I was furloughed by AA back in 2003 and have yet to hear from them - I suppose I got furloughed because I am a stupid liberal. Actually I noticed in EWR that the last class of pilots posted on the new hire board were almost all exclusively military, I bet they are a bunch of stupid liberals also.

I would not hold out a lot of hope for our pilot group because we don't seem to stand up for anything, not even the 'contract' that we work under now (re: 737 awards last month and violation of max awarded block times). Those of us who would try to make some improvements are the ones most likely to get furloughed, or at least that is where the majority of change oriented pilots are on the seniority list.

When I address the notion of treating our new hire pilots with some dignity and respect (such as insuring them) all I hear is how bad the left seater (the overwhelming preponderance of which are 'smart conservatives') had it when they were hired. In other words, if I had it bad, they get it bad. The concept of improvements for all concerned don't seem to apply. This is a sad, motley group at CAL and I can't fathom how we are going to extricate ourselves from this pathetic mentality. Just for fun, try and convince someone who has been here for 25 years or so that we should get some sort of minimum daily pay gaurantee, like most other legacy carriers have or had. You will get all these company oriented reasons against this basic necessity to avoid trips that don't even cover our expenses for coming to work. Amazing and depressing at the same moment.

I am ever amazed at how these grey haired, 777 and 767 captains will allow themselves to be awarded trips and submitted to reserve (ie. RX days) like a commuter airline pilot.

Do not be afraid to look in other areas of employ and perhaps leave this "profession" behind. I wish I would have been brave enough to do that back in 2003 rather than go to a commuter for 3 years before I was hired here in Jan '06. Now I am 42 and really don't have the time to re-educate and restart.

Very best wishes and good luck.

 

[contrail67]

Had a chance to interview in 2006. I ran the numbers and couldnt believe my eyes. Called a week before and said "sorry cant make it", she said when would you like to reschedule? I said never, thank you very much. Silence.......

Best move I ever made.

Until they DO renegotiate a better contract or merge and turn things around...which they will...then it will be the DUMBEST move you ever made. But you won't be there to even see it.
Did you run the numbers over your entire time at CAL or just look at the first 12 months?......