To all CAL guys... from a furloughed pilot

[IAHERJ]

I would be curious as to where he currently works. I'd like to pass that info along to others who are looking for employment. My guess is he is still at the company he was with in 2006 when he "had a chance to interview".... Let's see, under our current(terrible ) contract; he could(if it is about money) be a line holder on the 757/767 in EWR pulling down about 75-90K if he were to accept employment here in 2006. If you look at our terrible first year situation, then yes, your eyes will be amazed. If you look a year or two or five down the road, the story is a little different. Curious as to where sgmick works at the present.

IAHERJ

 

[CopilotDoug]

I would be curious as to where he currently works. I'd like to pass that info along to others who are looking for employment. My guess is he is still at the company he was with in 2006 when he "had a chance to interview".... Let's see, under our current(terrible ) contract; he could(if it is about money) be a line holder on the 757/767 in EWR pulling down about 75-90K if he were to accept employment here in 2006. If you look at our terrible first year situation, then yes, your eyes will be amazed. If you look a year or two or five down the road, the story is a little different. Curious as to where sgmick works at the present.

IAHERJ

In Newark? You're gonna have to commute on that kind of pay...and subsidize your retirement.

 

[IAHERJ]

That would be where his pay would be if he had come to CAL in 2006 when he supposedly had the opportunity. I'm not saying that is great pay, just putting it out there. I'm curious where he ended up that was so much better. I'd guess DAL or SWA would have been the only places where I think the quality of life would be better than CAL(and the only airlines that were hiring) and I'm just curious where this person is. I don't claim CAL is the end all end all but I think the movement over the last 3 years has been positive(age 65 killed it for a while) and will be positive again an a year or 2. Now, combine that with a new contract with work rule improvements and you have a darn good carrier. The airline itself is pretty well run. The relationship between work groups is nice but we, as pilots are upset with our relationship with middle management. That can be fixed. We had a CEO in years past who fostered a positive working environment and he has been replaced by a smart guy; however a guy who doesn't do well out on the line with the troops. Our union is a complete joke(also being fixed) and our pilot group is so fragmented you'd think we just went through a merger. Anyway, my point was to show the guy who turned CAL down that even with our pathetic first year pay and benefits, if he were to come here he would already be ahead of where he would be as a CA at a regional and moving up nicely in the years to come. I'm going to be just under 100k for the year as a IAH FO going into 4th year pay. I'm looking forward, not backward.

IAHERJ

 

[milky]

Continental management will never pay more for labor on their own accord. The answer to your question, old fashioned hard nosed leveraged bargaining is the only way we are going to get a real contract.

The Railway Labor Act hasn't changed, we still have the ability to strike albeit it's going to be a long wait. Nevertheless we must build a fully functional credible strike threat ASAP. Just the creation of a credible strike threat will derive leverage.

My definition of a real contract? A contact with a substantial increase to Contract 97 pay rates adjusted for inflation, repayment for our pay cut with a healthy increase on top. A contract that includes real work rules for significant increases in quality of life at both home and work. A contract that preserves our frozen "A" fund while also significantly increasing the retirement benefits of all pilots from the most junior to senior. A contract that eliminates our six year "B" scale with reasonable first year pay and insurance from day one.

The only way we are going to get such a contract is if we stand shoulder to shoulder and fight the common enemy - Continental Management. Will we be successful in our contractual demands? I don't know, but I do know,if we don't all band to together and unify quickly, behind a competent strong MEC we will surely fail and once again management will win.

Great pep rally speech. Sadly, it is hollow. You didn't address any of my points.

Why would CAL (or any other airline) pay more for labor. As previously listed by me:

-many pilots cannot afford or are not really willing to strike. Many need the job and will do whatever it takes just to keep the paychecks flowing

-if there was a strike, there are plenty of pilots that would take that job in a heartbeat. After either falling apart or getting rid of the striking labor, the airline would easily be able to find thousands of pilots willing to take the newly vacated jobs at the current rates. Granted, they'd bit*h about it after they got their foot in the door, but they would still take the job

Those factors to name two have driven down the market value of pilots. Try to unite and demand more... I've been reading for the last few years on forums like this how you guys are not going to settle for less pay, etc. But, the pay scales are essentially all the same. Plus, you guys are getting furloughed. Those that aren't are so thankful they weren't that they are ineffectual.

Good luck, but I still haven't seen any evidence that airline pilots have a market value above what is currently being paid...

In case you don't know, I want to be an airline pilot. I've been watching the demise of the community over the past 8 years with sadness as my cushy dream job fell by the wayside...

 

[Flopgut]

JB: Please consider that the RLA has changed. Not on paper, but in practice. Is a strike something used by labor vs. mgts? Or is it in fact a tool used against labor in a more complicated way? You are right, we have to build a credible strike threat and might have to try to use it. But that's not necessarily how past successes have to come to other pilot groups. We have to have a plan that attacks the strategies set against us.

 

[SFR]

I still don't see the big problem with CAL, besides the furloughs. What other airline can be better? I have flow 4 days this month, will get a 76 hour guarantee plus my 12.75% B-fund contribution... total about $7k month.

And that is bad?

 

[CopilotDoug]

I still don't see the big problem with CAL, besides the furloughs. What other airline can be better? I have flow 4 days this month, will get a 76 hour guarantee plus my 12.75% B-fund contribution... total about $7k month.

I'm sorry.

 

[SFR]

Also, during the hurricane I worked a flight to Orlando, brought the family. Then CAL also let me comat generators back home (large ones, total 500lbs) for free.

Not exactly a bad company in my opinion. Yeah, we can always use some better contract items like rigs, pay raise, etc.

In summary, I think a lot of you would complain about any job you have. I suggest quit flying and go get a real job where people work 40+ hours a week for less pay than we get and not anywhere close to a 13% contribution to a B-fund.

So what again is so bad (besides furloughs)? Please answer me, I am still waiting...

 

[SMOE]

Also, during the hurricane I worked a flight to Orlando, brought the family. Then CAL also let me comat generators back home (large ones, total 500lbs) for free.

Not exactly a bad company in my opinion. Yeah, we can always use some better contract items like rigs, pay raise, etc.

In summary, I think a lot of you would complain about any job you have. I suggest quit flying and go get a real job where people work 40+ hours a week for less pay than we get and not anywhere close to a 13% contribution to a B-fund.

So what again is so bad (besides furloughs)? Please answer me, I am still waiting...

Let me guess, you voted yes to POS '02? Or, were you still in High School when that was brought on property?
Morons like you are the reason for it's existence and will not be any help for improvements with Steaming Pile of Contract '08

 

[SFR]

Like I said...what is that bad? With all my reserve time and not being called, my side business is booming.

My side business is open to anyone, most choose not to do anything else...you would rather sit and complain.

Solution: MOVE TO BASE, bid reserve, and make a hobby that pays.

 

[SFR]

You know what you are getting into. You know the contract when you got hired.

All of a sudden when you get hired you want the red carpet rolled out for you.

Instead of wasting your time on this website, go be pro-active and find other sources of income.... I bet you guys sit around the crew lounge and complain about how bad everything is.

You choose to go to work everyday...

I will be back later, I need to deposit a commission check.

 

[California]

Like I said...what is that bad? With all my reserve time and not being called, my side business is booming.

My side business is open to anyone, most choose not to do anything else...you would rather sit and complain.

Solution: MOVE TO BASE, bid reserve, and make a hobby that pays.

What is your side buisness that is booming? I could use one right about now.

 

[Flopgut]

SFR: I agree with you somewhat, but cool it with the side job stuff, OK? You've got a primary job and the emphasis needs to be on making it better. SMOE might be a millionaire or might already have a side gig...we all might. So what? You going to start flying for free if the side job does real good? I'm sure not. We don't need anybody who will back away from a check.

 

[CopilotDoug]

SFR: I agree with you somewhat, but cool it with the side job stuff, OK? You've got a primary job and the emphasis needs to be on making it better. SMOE might be a millionaire or might already have a side gig...we all might. So what? You going to start flying for free if the side job does real good? I'm sure not. We don't need anybody who will back away from a check.

Flopgut, if you have to explain it to him, he wouldn't understand...Jeep thing, ya know?

 

[Jetjockey]

While having a side business is a wonderful idea. The fact you HAVE to earn outside for stability and income is deplorable for a profession such as an airline pilot.

I don't know many doctors or lawyers, or airline managers that have part-time gigs. If you want to, that's one thing. Having to shows how far this profession has slid.

 

[Flopgut]

I have a very good friend who has made a small fortune on his side gig. He still fights for every single thin dime the airline owes him and is one of the most fierce defenders of this profession you could imagine. SFR: we need you to act like this is the only thing you've got. That's how we all need to act.

 

[SFR]

I would not fly for free, I would f*&%ing quit!! Let me start by saying that I don't give a damn about what happens with the company. Nor do I fear any chief pilot or management person.

For example... this last Friday hurricane Ike is approaching IAH. I get called to operate a flight from IAH to MCO with a 40 hour layover and deadhead back. Family goes with me. We had a real estate project to do in ATL (that is the side business). Rent a car, drive to ATL and work on the project. Never called scheduling. They cancel all flights Sunday, put deadhead for Monday. Monday was a day off for me. I never called scheduling...my schedule happens and bam, I get an extra day off because they had to slide my off days. I was never even in MCO for longer than it took to get the rental car and bolt out of town. Company thought I was sitting in hotel the whole time..... I was actually doing what I needed to .

Moral of story...if scheduling would have called and said "we need you to operate a flight back to IAH" I would have simply said sorry but I left. I am not worried about a chief pilot call or anything.

If you have a successful side business, you care a lot less about getting in trouble at the real job. Why? Because I can quit anytime and be fine!! They know that, that is why they never call me about sh!tt...

 

[SFR]

Let me explain one thing. I do care about my fellow pilots. When I say that I don't care what happens to the company, I mean management and the other scum bags (scabs too)

Lets face it, CAL showed no loyalty to the furloughs.... Why should I be loyal? When I get my 20 years in I am gone!!!

 

[SFR]

While having a side business is a wonderful idea. The fact you HAVE to earn outside for stability and income is deplorable for a profession such as an airline pilot.

I don't know many doctors or lawyers, or airline managers that have part-time gigs. If you want to, that's one thing. Having to shows how far this profession has slid.

How many doctors and lawyers do you know? I know a lot....they don't work 10 days or less a month..whic here you can by living in base.

Choices my friend......stay or quit, either way....quit whining.

 

[SFR]

BTW, I am NOT from a rich family.... in 2003 I was broke barely able to pay my mortgage on my ASA salary....

 

[Flopgut]

SFR: It seems every CAL pilot gets flatspotted at some point. (Maybe all airline pilots do, but particuliarly CAL) You've just managed to do OK to this point. Down the road when the side gig gets bigger and more expensive, you've upgraded or put yourself in a tight seniority position, and the stakes get little higher this will count. Trust me. It will happen. CAL mgt knows better than any other that they only need 51% to pass a contract. I hope you don't get pinched, but a lot of us have. Hang with us and let's get a good deal. It does sound like you're up for that so we've got no problem.

 

[SFR]

Absolutely, I vote yes for only the best contract we can get.

Other than that, management can go fly a kite.

You can count on me for that!

 

[Pocono Pilot]

I knew things were going to go bad at CAL, but I had no idea things would get this bad over there. I feel sorry for the guys geting furloughed and for everyone else who has to work for that terrible contract.

I think management knows that they can do whatever they want to the pilots because CALALPA will not ever fight back. That is why we at XJT separated from CALALPA in the first place. Otherwise we would have the same crappy contract as the CAL pilots.

If it's any consolation, things are not great here at ExpressJet either. We are furloughing some of the rookies, but they will be back soon. At least I still hold the left seat for now. I honestly could not even imagine going back to jerking gear here at this place. I don't do walkarounds either ;-) LOL

 

[sgmick]

Until they DO renegotiate a better contract or merge and turn things around...which they will...then it will be the DUMBEST move you ever made. But you won't be there to even see it.
Did you run the numbers over your entire time at CAL or just look at the first 12 months?......

It included many factors not just my "TIME" at continental. The first ten years was all I needed to know and thus made my decision. MY decision..... Now with age 65 and shrinking capacity Im even more comfortable with my position.

I know CAL will get a better deal in the future, they certainly deserve it. My personal situation couldnt rely on "someday" and "maybe" starting at the bottom of the list AGAIN (4th time) was a no-brainer with the first 5 yrs pay and no insurance and a newborn.

Dont get me wrong, there are many fine people at CAL. I have friends there and wish them all left seats $350k a yr and 25 days off a month, I just didnt have the time to wait, or the faith that it would happen any time soon.

Believe me, no matter how it turns out, this is far from the dumbest move Ive ever made. ;-)

 

[SMOE]

I knew things were going to go bad at CAL, but I had no idea things would get this bad over there. I feel sorry for the guys geting furloughed and for everyone else who has to work for that terrible contract.

I think management knows that they can do whatever they want to the pilots because CALALPA will not ever fight back. That is why we at XJT separated from CALALPA in the first place. Otherwise we would have the same crappy contract as the CAL pilots.

If it's any consolation, things are not great here at ExpressJet either. We are furloughing some of the rookies, but they will be back soon. At least I still hold the left seat for now. I honestly could not even imagine going back to jerking gear here at this place. I don't do walkarounds either ;-) LOL

I always made it a point to do at least one walk around per trip, sometimes one per day on the busy days. Helped remind me where I came from and my FOs always appreciated the gesture.

 

[Jetjockey]

How many doctors and lawyers do you know? I know a lot....they don't work 10 days or less a month..whic here you can by living in base.

Choices my friend......stay or quit, either way....quit whining.

I know lots of lawyers. I have 2 doctors on my block. I've stayed in this industry, for 20 years. I may be whining in your book, but some of us want to make it better. I'll complain as much as damn well please, if you don't like, your in the wrong place junior. Go take another swig of company kool-aid.

 

[cybourg10]

I knew things were going to go bad at CAL, but I had no idea things would get this bad over there. I feel sorry for the guys geting furloughed and for everyone else who has to work for that terrible contract.

I think management knows that they can do whatever they want to the pilots because CALALPA will not ever fight back. That is why we at XJT separated from CALALPA in the first place. Otherwise we would have the same crappy contract as the CAL pilots.

If it's any consolation, things are not great here at ExpressJet either. We are furloughing some of the rookies, but they will be back soon. At least I still hold the left seat for now. I honestly could not even imagine going back to jerking gear here at this place. I don't do walkarounds either ;-) LOL

As a fellow XJTer I am embarrassed that you are on the same seniority list as I am. Most of the guys that wrote and fought for our current contract are at CAL now you idiot and you would be too if they didn't turn you down. Good luck to all the CAL guys, I heard recently that CAL management tried to give back crew meals in exchange for scope haha.

 

[Jetjockey]

Does anyone on this forum NOT consider Pokemyhole a troll? No one takes this person seriously.

 

[whatitdoing?]

It's so funny listening to people bitch about CAL that aren't here. There's a lot to improve, but I don't know of ANY major out there that doesn't need BIG improvements. As far as the furloughs go, it sucks and I can't identify with you. But you'll come back to a far better contract or I'll resign and you'll move up one number.

 

[av8tor4239]

REWARD. $45000/year should be a starting point.

Fractional pay first year is 70k year base.... problem is too many of you all have hard ons for a 757??? I will never get it?

Oh yeah.. you only need 2500 hours to apply

(this is my sign of the beast post)