Tips For Flying in ICE

[DirkkDiggler]

Flew C-310's, C-208's and Barons out of Minnesota for 2 years and here's what worked for me:

1. Preflight - Look at the temps aloft and find the freezing level. Also check the cloud tops. Pireps are great if you can find them and they are relevant.

2. As soon as you start picking up ice, climb (unless you know for sure that there is no icing below you, which I found to be rare). You will always be able to descend again if you can't get out of the ice, but if you descend initially, you may not be able to climb again.

3. Watch your airspeed. At Airnet we had a minimum speed in icing conditions. I believe it was 130 or something like that. If you can't maintain your speed above that, sacrifice altitude for airspeed and get out of there.

4. Always have an escape plan in case you can't get out of the ice, and like me the boots break. If you've always got a plan, you should be alright.

5. NASA did a study on ice bridging and PROVED it to be a fallacy. Airnet's policy was to blow the boots as soon as you start picking up ice. Don't wait for a lot of ice to accrue because these boots suck anyway and if you wait, you've got that much more on there that may not come off.

Following these rules, I only had to divert once when the boots failed on the Caravan and my airspeed was falling rapidly. Fortunatly I had a plan to escape and I had the altitude to make it happen because I climbed the second I started picking up ice. You should be fine, and remember that if it's too bad, you can always call the company and say that you'd like to wait an hour to see if things get better.

P.S. Never use Type IV anti-icing fluid on a piston twin. This stuff is meant to shear off during take-off and that really only happens at speeds that jet aircraft fly. The stuff can actually inhibit your lift at takeoff, just when you need it most.

 

[iflyjets4food]

just wondering if any of you had tips for flying in ice. I don't have hardly any experiance at all and i'll be flying 135 in 310s in this stuff starting jan. Just bored at work and wanted to see what ya'll think...thanks

Are you a CFI in LAF?

 

[Jpilot23]

Are you a CFI in LAF?

yeah, untill the 15th anyway....you know me?

 

[Windsor]

If your iced up and you have a long runway, use all of it.

Keep your approaches fast and avoid chopping the power.

Freezing rain is not as bad as they say, just remember that there is warmer air above you, so climb until its rain, then plan your escape.

Anti ice - pitot, prop heat, ect. should be used before entering the ice

Keep a close eye on the boots. Just because the left boot blows, doesnt mean the right one does. Same goes for the tail, although much harder to check.

Teflon sprays are a waste of money and time.

Tops of clouds = bad.

Snow you can fly around in all day. At night it'll give you a good light show on the windshield.

Enjoy freightdawgin, its fun.

 

[414Flyer]

Thats is a good point about tops of clouds being prime for icing. I have seen momentary severe icing from spending time in a cloud top.

If you are at night, like he said before me, you will get some static discharge from the ice crystals. Just enjoy the light show, its much better than flying thru supercooled water and getting tons of ice.

Some people say using Pledge on the boots helps shed ice. I have no idea if it does, but its supplied to me so I use it

 

[CloudyIFR]

Snow you can fly around in all day. At night it'll give you a good light show on the windshield.

Enjoy freightdawgin, its fun.

Most of the time you're right about the snow. However, one of the worst ice days I had was flying an approach in the mountains in a heavy snow storm. Got over 3 inches of ice and had a nice horn going. Amazingly enough though I really didn't notice much a difference in airspeed from other icing days.

Another good place to find ice is over lakes and areas of orographic lifting.

Yep, flying freight is great. If you can fly a C310 single pilot on a daily basis for a year you can fly anything!

Curtis

 

[WMUSIGPI]

nevermind

 

[rocket bob]

Wait to blow the boots... When you're getting scared, wait a few more minutes til your really scared, then cycle em.

 

[iflyjets4food]

yeah, untill the 15th anyway....you know me?

I was in LAF the other day and heard someone talking about going to fly 310s and being concerned because he didn't have much ice experience. Kinda thought it matched up with this thread.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Typically, if you've got boots, you'll want to get out of there before you lose 10 Kts IAS. Bear in mind that if you go higher, you usually get colder, so whatever you accumulate on the way up, you're likely to keep.

Sublimation (which is a form of evaporation whereby the solid bypasses the liquid state and becomes a gas)will help erode any ice in clear, colder temperatures aloft...

 

[avbug]

Sublimation (which is a form of evaporation whereby the solid bypasses the liquid state and becomes a gas)will help erode any ice in clear, colder temperatures aloft...

Don't count on that. Ever. The ability for that to happen is largely proportional to the relative humidity at altitude, but it may never sublimate. If it does, nice for you...but don't ever count on that. I spent nearly three hours one day last week working in and out of weather in conditions very conducive to ice formation. I had nearly three inches on unprotected areas, and didn't shed any until descent to lower warmer temps in the clear. Even then, we were still shedding ice on final...in the middle east. It's dry here, too. Very dry, with a very wide temp/dewpoint spread at altitude, but outside the cloud, we didn't see any effects of sublimation.

 

[time builder]

Anyone else have much experience with prop anti-ice affecting their DG/Compass? I'm sure that's another good topic for discussion with icing conditions.

 

[avbug]

Why would propeller ice affect your gyro or compass? Are you talking about electrical boots interfering with the compass? That's possible, as will electric NESA type windscreens, hotplates, and all sorts of other electrical devices...but the ice shouldn't have any effect.

Flight in dry ice crystals can cause st. elmos fire and static discharges, which can affect your compass, but should have no effect on your gyros...especially air driven uncompensated gyros.

I don't think I've ever heard of ice on a propeller affecting a gyro or compass. Can you provide some detail?

 

[time builder]

Right, it isn't the ice, but high electrical loads in the vicinity of the cockpit throwing off the magnetic field of the compass. Now that you mention it, I believe the electric windshield heat threw it off too.

 

[avbug]

The compass should be calibrated with everything on, or at least everything that is expected for most phases of flight. Having the wiskey compass go to la-la land when electrical fields are introduced around it is normal, because all electrical fields produce magnetic fields, and the compass responds to magnetic fields. This will occur when you turn on the systems, without regard to the presence of ice.

Your gyro should not be affected in any way.

You'll likely see the compass moving around, not just in error by a certain amount, because with electric blankets and electric prop boots (and to some degree, windscreen protection), will cycle on and off in stages. One element will be energized for so long, then it goes off and another is energized, and so on. You can see it cycling on your ammeter, and you will probably see changes in the compass that coincide with the spikes or movements on the ammeter.

 

[Hook 'Em Horns]

Nothing to add about flying in ice, but when I was at AirNet we were to cycle the boots and all other anti/de-ice equipment before the first flight during the run-up. This was done all year long to prevent the boots from becoming brittle due to lack of use. A good idea.

 

[sleddriver71]

I know "new research" says that we're supposed to cycle the boots continuously when in icing conditions and that ice bridging is a myth. I would listen to people who fly in areas conducive to icing and those that basically have a lot of experience flying in ice. I flew out of the Seattle, WA area for several years, crossing the cascades frequently. I can't tell you if ice bridging is a myth or not but it doesn't matter at all. What I can tell you from my experience is that blowing the boots with a very thin layer of ice will not get rid of the ice. They teach at SIMCOM that ice bridging is a myth and that waiting to accumulate ice before blowing the boots is not necessary anymore because of the way boots are designed. That is bull loney! I should have known not to listen to someone in Orlando, FL telling me how to deal with ice, all his knowledge came out of a book and mine came from the pacific northwest and the ice machine known as the cascade mountain range. I don't care what the "latest" research says, I know what works and so does anybody who has a good deal of experience flying in icing conditions. Of course it is a good idea to get out of the icing conditions as soon as possible, but it is a BAD idea to immediately cycle the boots as soon as you get the first indications of ice. I flew Chieftains, Senecas, and 400 series Cessnas, and I would never blow the boots until I lost 10-15 kts of indicated airspeed.

 

[avbug]

Ice bridging is definitely not a myth.

I don't know about looking for a performance decrease, but at least a quarter inch or more of ice ought to be present...and you need to consider the type of ice. If it's soft ice that lends to bridging, more is needed before breaking it free. If it's hard glaze ice, then you may be able to crack it sooner. The rate and way in which it's accumulating is also important; if you're briding it out by popping the boots, and it's accumulating rapidly while the boots are out, you can develop a bridge that the next boot cycle won't break.

We ended up yesterday with a couple inches we couldn't get rid of after only three passes through a relatively benign level 2 cell...and it most definitely didn't sublimate in the clear air outside the cell (even with extremely dry air). We had to descend to get rid of it.

 

[Lead Sled]

As per the norm, Avbug nailed it. However, you're probably not going to follow his advice so I'll add another suggestion - get a hold of a copy Weather Flying by Robert Buck and read it cover to cover a few times. You will probably be able to find it at one of the larger book stores and it may even be in your local library.

Icing is one of those things that can kill you. I had a good friend of mine get killed in a known-ice certified light twin while "playing in the snow". Respect it.

LS

 

[sleddriver71]

As per the norm, Avbug nailed it. However, you're probably not going to follow his advice... Icing is one of those things that can kill you. I had a good friend of mine get killed in a known-ice certified light twin while "playing in the snow". Respect it.

LS

Thanks for the information on the book, I will get a copy of it when I can. I am wondering about your comment, "However, you're probably not going to follow his advice..." What are you referring to? If you read earlier posts in this thread you might notice that Avbug and I are not in disagreement, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.