Three Insugents Killed (300 More Created)

[MarineGrunt]

Marines Kill 9 Insurgents (900 Insurgents Scared Sh!tless)

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/28/iraq.main/

 

[KarmaPolice]

Karma,
I think you’re selling the average Iraqi pretty short. I think in general, they’re able to figure out what’s going on here.

What makes you think they can’t see this for exactly what it is? Some bad guys put some innocents in harm’s way and some of them end up dead (along with the bad guys). Is this now going to create “300 insurgents”? Most people with common sense are going to direct their outrage at the group acting illegally and cowardly using non-combatants to muddy the waters.

Iraqis are going to be pissed their women and children died, that’s for sure. I think most will be pissed at the insurgents and not apt to pick up a weapon and join the @ssholes who they know caused those deaths.

This theory of “creating insurgents” is just a liberal wet-dream that gets perpetuated in the media in the faint hope that it will actually start happening.

Oh….yeah… and I also need to wave the BS flag on this:



If you started this thread in an attempt to hear from “fellow military aviators on the topic of overall Iraqi strategy…blah…blah….blah..” then why does the first line of your post start with this:

“This is a prime example of why the situation in Iraq is where it's at.”

Allright, I'm out, can't argue with people who aren't willing to give me the benefit of the doubt on my own basic motivations. I think what I said was a pretty good way to get some opinions and arguments going. I was expecting to get a little more defensive help. Point taken.

My point is that our strategy for attacking the insurgents seems to be locking us into a vicious cycle, and that cycle is not leading us towards victory in Iraq. I believe there is a way to fight the insurgency without taking chances like we did with this latest strike. But I guess you have to pull a trigger to be qualified on our Iraq strategy so my opinion is moot. (ala Magnum).

 

[stonewall]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7092159/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/04/wirq04.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/04/ixworld.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28105-2004Oct12.html

http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1134719982.shtml

http://iraqiexpat.blogspot.com/2005/03/terrorists-are-losing.html

This took 5 seconds.

 

[stonewall]

Karma,
I think you’re selling the average Iraqi pretty short. I think in general, they’re able to figure out what’s going on here.

What makes you think they can’t see this for exactly what it is? Some bad guys put some innocents in harm’s way and some of them end up dead (along with the bad guys). Is this now going to create “300 insurgents”? Most people with common sense are going to direct their outrage at the group acting illegally and cowardly using non-combatants to muddy the waters.

Iraqis are going to be pissed their women and children died, that’s for sure. I think most will be pissed at the insurgents and not apt to pick up a weapon and join the @ssholes who they know caused those deaths.

This theory of “creating insurgents” is just a liberal wet-dream that gets perpetuated in the media in the faint hope that it will actually start happening.

Oh….yeah… and I also need to wave the BS flag on this:



If you started this thread in an attempt to hear from “fellow military aviators on the topic of overall Iraqi strategy…blah…blah….blah..” then why does the first line of your post start with this:

“This is a prime example of why the situation in Iraq is where it's at.”

Allright, I'm out, can't argue with people who aren't willing to give me the benefit of the doubt on my own basic motivations. I think what I said was a pretty good way to get some opinions and arguments going. I was expecting to get a little more defensive help. Point taken.

My point is that our strategy for attacking the insurgents seems to be locking us into a vicious cycle, and that cycle is not leading us towards victory in Iraq. I believe there is a way to fight the insurgency without taking chances like we did with this latest strike. But I guess you have to pull a trigger to be qualified on our Iraq strategy so my opinion is moot. (ala Magnum).

That was said tongue in cheek. Did you not see me point out my own logical fallacies after I said it? I guess I gave you a little too much credit in the brains department. I'm glad you're breaking this vicious cycle of FI posts!

 

[MarineGrunt]

I believe there is a way to fight the insurgency without taking chances like we did with this latest strike.

Then what is it???

But I guess you have to pull a trigger to be qualified on our Iraq strategy so my opinion is moot. (ala Magnum).

Pretty much yes. But more importantly, you need to understand the difference between tactics and strategy and specifically how those tactics are employed. Its the same thing as a person criticizing a pilot's actions who knows absolutely nothing about aviation or the situation at hand.

 

[MercuryPilot]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4577578.stm

This is a prime example of why the situation in Iraq is where it's at. This is not a slight to the men and women on the ground and in the air who do their jobs heroically. But is it too difficult for the policy makers to see how operations such as this are going to cause more problems than they solve in the long run?

It's hard for me to understand how anybody can see Operation Iraqi Freedom as a success anymore, considering the price. I'd be interested to see what the folks here have to say about this. Anybody realizing the emporer has no clothes?

Your big mistake was believing something you read on the blame-America first BBC website.

 

[Paris]

Magnum,
I'm sorry you hate my post so much. The original poster asked for thoughts in an attempt to create discussion, and that's what I gave him. You have interesting inputs, albeit sometimes ad hominem, but here are my replies to them.

As for no children dying in Iraq, I think their parents would disagree. Yes, its still an all-volunteer force, but the death of a parent's child is still a huge loss for that parent. And for what, I don't know. That ties into the second question I asked. I honestly don't know the current official postion. It has changed a few times.

The quote "you're either with us or against us" was from GW. Thats the way it seems to be if anyone proposes this course we've set isn't sound. I still think Iraq is a quagmire. Do you really believe it isn't? We've been in that country since 1991, and I personally don't see us EVER leaving.

As for if we're safer, that ties into the first question. Isn't that the reason we went in the first place? If we can't measure it, how would we ever know if we accomplished our objective?

This probably should have been posted in the non-aviation forum, so I too will end here with replies. Take care

 

[pkober]

Karma,

If you think we can't win why don't you claim cosciencious objector (sp.) status. Or do you want to continue to build high quality turbine time, no matter what you believe?

If you really believe this war is wrong tell your commander you can't continue to fight with a clear mind and need to be removed from the cockpit.

Do what you think is right and don't drag down the rest us down.

CLAMBAKE

 

[onthebeach]

To "KarmaPolice"...whoever you are:

Let me explain the situation to you, as it was explained to me when I was a young officer:

First: If your conscience will not allow you to wholeheartedly support the policies and actions of the duly elected and constituted United States government, you should immediately resign your commission.

Second: If you believe that any order you are given is illegal, you have the duty to clearly and immediately express that belief, and the reason(s) for the same, to your Commanding Officer; and, to refuse to obey such order until such time that, by evidence of fact, you are convinced it is in fact a legal order.

If you are in either of the situations described above and don't take the appropriate course of action I've outlined, then you are in violation of your oath of office and the UCMJ.

On the other hand, if you are not in either of the situations I've described, then shut up and do your duty.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Karma,

If you think we can't win why don't you claim cosciencious objector (sp.) status. Or do you want to continue to build high quality turbine time, no matter what you believe?

If you really believe this war is wrong tell your commander you can't continue to fight with a clear mind and need to be removed from the cockpit.

Do what you think is right and don't drag down the rest us down.

CLAMBAKE

Quite possibly the worst response I've read. Not even worth a reply.