Three Insugents Killed (300 More Created)

[MarineGrunt]

Jump to whatever conclusion you need to that suits your preconcieved notion of anyone who utters anything contradictory to your viewpoint MG.

I'd be interested to hear how a thread on FI.com about the logic of some of our Iraq policies is going to undermine the war effort. THAT kind of attitude smacks of Facism and Authoritarianism, the very kind of attitude that was employed in the previous Iraqi regime. Kind of ironic.

I guess we come from a different school of thought. I've been trained to do my job and keep my mouth shut. I'm a member of the military, not a civillian so I hold myself to different standards. Attitudes are contagious and they do effect morale. That is the point I am making. You read this story and you question our strategy. How do you know that this was not a sound combat decision?

 

[stonewall]

Jump to whatever conclusion you need to that suits your preconcieved notion of anyone who utters anything contradictory to your viewpoint MG.

I'd be interested to hear how a thread on FI.com about the logic of some of our Iraq policies is going to undermine the war effort. THAT kind of attitude smacks of Facism and Authoritarianism, the very kind of attitude that was employed in the previous Iraqi regime. Kind of ironic.

Attitudes and comments like yours from a military officer, when relayed via Al Jazeera, Reuters and the AP (or FI.com) to the terrorist elements in Iraq (or insurgents, if you will), give them motivation to hold on a little longer rather than give up. It gives them the impression they can hold out and actually win...I'd say that's aid and comfort.

And spare me the totalitarianism rhetoric. You're not in any danger of losing your civil liberties, and comments like that are right up there with Ted Kennedy's 'Saddam's torture chambers are now open under US management' comments about Abu Ghraib.

Are you and Ted free to say such things? Absolutely. Do I want to use gov't power to shut either of you up? Not at all. Do such things harm the troops currently fighting in Iraq? YES. Let your conscience be your guide. And, though we lack to power to enforce it (thankfully), don't get upset when others tell you to STFU because you're hurting the war effort. Which you are.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Attitudes and comments like yours from a military officer, when relayed via Al Jazeera, Reuters and the AP (or FI.com) to the terrorist elements in Iraq (or insurgents, if you will), give them motivation to hold on a little longer rather than give up. It gives them the impression they can hold out and actually win...I'd say that's aid and comfort.

And spare me the totalitarianism rhetoric. You're not in any danger of losing your civil liberties, and comments like that are right up there with Ted Kennedy's 'Saddam's torture chambers are now open under US management' comments about Abu Ghraib.

Are you and Ted free to say such things? Absolutely. Do I want to use gov't power to shut either of you up? Not at all. Do such things harm the troops currently fighting in Iraq? YES. Let your conscience be your guide. And, though we lack to power to enforce it (thankfully), don't get upset when others tell you to STFU because you're hurting the war effort. Which you are.

Hurting the war effort? Do you even remember what the war effort was? A stable and democratic Iraq right? That's why we're all in this right? Me questioning if some of these policies are getting us there is hardly fodder for Al Jazeera. But nice exaggeration. In no way did I suggest anything that would comfort the enemy. I guess I could do the same thing to you and extrapolate your logic. But I won't.

And neither did I insinuate my civil liberties were at risk. I merely call attention to the irony the MG was employing the tactics of Sadaam and other authoritarians to shut me up. Just like you are. Nothing I said can be construed as comfort to the enemy. I want victory in Iraq as much as you do.

Hurting morale? Questioning whether our tactics are getting us closer to acheiving our objective? I'm not even going to bother. People with your attitude have their mind made up and will only attack anyone or anything that contradicts their view.

Me and Ted huh? You argue like my wife.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Questioning whether our tactics are getting us closer to acheiving our objective?

Which tactics are we talking here? Killing the enemy?

 

[MarineGrunt]

I merely call attention to the irony the MG was employing the tactics of Sadaam and other authoritarians to shut me up. Just like you are.

Whaddya say Magnum, you tie him to the chair and I get to use the blow-torch this time???

 

[stonewall]

Hurting the war effort? Do you even remember what the war effort was? A stable and democratic Iraq right? That's why we're all in this right? Me questioning if some of these policies are getting us there is hardly fodder for Al Jazeera. But nice exaggeration. In no way did I suggest anything that would comfort the enemy. I guess I could do the same thing to you and extrapolate your logic. But I won't.

And neither did I insinuate my civil liberties were at risk. I merely call attention to the irony the MG was employing the tactics of Sadaam and other authoritarians to shut me up. Just like you are. Nothing I said can be construed as comfort to the enemy. I want victory in Iraq as much as you do.

Hurting morale? Questioning whether our tactics are getting us closer to acheiving our objective? I'm not even going to bother. People with your attitude have their mind made up and will only attack anyone or anything that contradicts their view.

Me and Ted huh? You argue like my wife.

Karma, if we were employing the tactics of Saddam we'd pull you of your house and shoot you. Then we'd shoot your wife. Your emotional appeal to "authoritarianism" was much more of stretch than anything I said.

I didn't say you hurt morale. Most of the guys over there fighting couldn't care less about your opinion. I said your comments, when relayed to the enemy, give them motivation to keep fighting. They can't beat us...only outlast us.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I guess we come from a different school of thought. I've been trained to do my job and keep my mouth shut. I'm a member of the military, not a civillian so I hold myself to different standards. Attitudes are contagious and they do effect morale. That is the point I am making. You read this story and you question our strategy. How do you know that this was not a sound combat decision?

I know why the "shut up and do your job" attitude is employed in our military. You really believe I should not consider what it is that we are involved in, and I shouldn't raise questions like this?

Please tell me you aren't so naive to think I read this story, then started questioning our strategy for success in Iraq.

I'm more interested in hearing from fellow military aviators on the topic of overall iraqi strategy than questioning the validity of that particular decision. I used that as an example.

 

[stonewall]

Why don't we put the blame for this incident where it belongs? On the dudes that planted an IED and then hid out in a house with women and children. You have to know there are no combat pilots out there that would knowingly drop an LGB or a JDAM on a house with kids in it. Those kids died because a few guys knowingly and willingly put them in danger. Maybe next time the locals will tell 'em to get the hell out of the house the next time they plant a bomb and let themselves in.

 

[Fury220]

I know why the "shut up and do your job" attitude is employed in our military. You really believe I should not consider what it is that we are involved in, and I shouldn't raise questions like this?

FI.com is not the place to do so. Do it over a beer in your own squadron...where people can see your face and understand your sincerity.

Don't do it on an internet message board in front of the world.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Karma, if we were employing the tactics of Saddam we'd pull you of your house and shoot you. Then we'd shoot your wife. Your emotional appeal to "authoritarianism" was much more of stretch than anything I said.

I didn't say you hurt morale. Most of the guys over there fighting couldn't care less about your opinion. I said your comments, when relayed to the enemy, give them motivation to keep fighting. They can't beat us...only outlast us.

The tactic of "shut up and don't question what we are doing" is a tactic used by authoritarian regimes. You are right, instead of threatening violence to back up your statement you employed bad arguments.

The hurting morale thing was aimed at MG. But again, soliciting opinions on if we should be killing them without making more for every one we kill hardly gives them comfort to hang on.