Thoughts regarding market's effects on airline travel?

[~~~^~~~]

Max,

The British Imperial Gallon is 20% larger than ours and their emissions requirements not quite as strict. Those explain why my car, which gets 31MPG here, gets 36 to 37 there.

I'm all for consumption based taxes (as Adma Smith would be) since they are a market based solution which allows people the freedom to choose. Typically the Democrats have been against consumption taxes. Obama is not going to back a regressive consumption based tax, is he? After all, gas taxes have a greater percentage impact on low income people.

If you like consumption taxes, you should read up on the Fair Tax and change political parties.

American consumption is most closely related to American productivity. American GDP per capita is 1,100% higher than your worker's paradise south of Florida and 10% higher than France. If you want to look for real efficiency, go to a third world island where they have burned every tree of the island and see how that's working out.

America will of course benefit from more efficiency, but that is only a small part of the overall solution.

You call Americans "greedy and arrogant" do you have a clue which country by far and above funds private charities?

Your America bashing gets old, fast.

 

[NuGuy]

Delta just secured a $1 Billion line of credit about a month or so ago. One analyst said that the Delta team is either extremely lucky they got that line of credit when they did or they are geniuses.

Heyas,

I'll give credit where credit is due. RA IS extremely savvy. He activated a huge line of credit at NWA on 9/11 before the 2nd tower was hit.

I have no doubt he saw this coming, and acted before it was too late.

Nu

 

[Max Powers]

Max,

The British Imperial Gallon is 20% larger than ours and their emissions requirements not quite as strict. Those explain why my car, which gets 31MPG here, gets 36 to 37 there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17344368/

Theis article is over a year old. And I'm too tired to debate you especially when logic just fly's over your head.

As you will see Europe which includes some of the less efficient eastern block countries - kills us by 2 times the fuel efficiency. They do this by tax the living H.E. double hockey sticks out of GAS.

Thanks for the PM mr. fin have fun on your mission to save the world and turn them into sara palins.



Fuel efficiency standards for passenger cars have remained unchanged for two decades at 27.5 miles per gallon. The Bush administration recently revamped the rules for light trucks, creating a sliding mileage scale that is based on a vehicle’s size. Now Bush wants to assign a similar measure to passenger cars.



In general, cars are far more fuel-efficient in Europe, where gas is much more expensive. In Europe, cars on average get 40 mpg, compared with 20.4 mpg for U.S. cars.


Overseas, primarily in Europe, there are 113 vehicles for sale that get a combined 40 mpg, up from 86 in 2005. Combined gas mileage is the average of a vehicle’s city and highway mpg numbers.
Adding insult to injury is the fact that nearly two-thirds of the 113 highly fuel-efficient models that are unavailable to American consumers are either made by U.S.-based automobile manufacturers or by foreign manufacturers with substantial U.S. sales operations, such as Nissan and Toyota.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Your the biggest tard ever. Europe is nowhere near as bad off as we are. The S and P has dropped over 40 percent from its highs in 2007!!!!! If memory serves it was at 1547 now it in the 900. Europe and Asia isn't anywhere close to this level of loss. They may drop some more but won't come close to our massive losses. They are using international accountanting laws, under Bush's deregulation WE DO NOT. Therefore we have much less transparency and it is much easier to skim money from here and there so you can get that big NJ sparkly jet.

Not Quite

Some European stock indices....

OMXS (Stockholm) 52wk high 407.81 today 201.42 %chg -50%

MIBTEL (Italy) 52wk high 32,027 Today 15,526 %chg -51%

FTSE 100 (London) 52wk high 6751 Today 4087 %chg -40%

OSEAX (OSlo) 52wk high 605 Today 291.05 %chg -52%

CAC 40 (France) 52wk high 5882 Today 3176 %chg -46%

DJI 52wk high14280 Today 8451 %chg -41%

S&P 52wk high 1576 Today 899 %-43%

http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=europe

 

[Hamburger]

Your the biggest tard ever. Europe is nowhere near as bad off as we are.

Might want to Google 'Iceland' before you start calling people tards.

 

[Cobra17]

Heyas,

I'll give credit where credit is due. RA IS extremely savvy. He activated a huge line of credit at NWA on 9/11 before the 2nd tower was hit.

I have no doubt he saw this coming, and acted before it was too late.

Nu

You're putting you're faith in RA? He activated a huge line of credit in 20 mins? uhhh...good luck!

 

[Thebadcat1313]

You're putting you're faith in RA? He activated a huge line of credit in 20 mins? uhhh...good luck!

I think there's a difference between activating a line of credit vs getting a line of credit set up. It was probably already in place at the time.

 

[Max Powers]

Might want to Google 'Iceland' before you start calling people tards.

OK maybe I was off on that one but they still got thinner and hotter chics.

 

[Captzaahlie]

"H.E. double hockey sticks........."

OH MY!

 

[boxjockey]

Hate to break it to all of you rah-rah economists, but the sh!t isn't even to the fan yet. We'll probably have a 15% rebound in the equity markets in the next month, and then things will flatten for a while. The real trouble with the US and UK economies is at the consumer level. For the last 25 years, consumer debt levels have steadily increased. Instead of people saving and then paying for products and services, they have borrowed money for the same things. People in the US have become entirely too used to instant gratification. A recent report stated that the average american household has an income of $50k, and carries a debt load of more than $18K, which does not include mortgages. The US has had a negative savings rate for the last two years. Last time that happened was prior to WWII. If you look at these numbers, take into account plunging home values, which was a major funding source for many americans recently, then where are we truly heading? Over the last 9 years, incomes have remained flat. New bankruptcy laws which make it much more difficult to liquidate debts. Take all of this into consideration, and then realize that 2/3 of GDP is from consumer spending. What do you truly think is going to save this economy? Increasing exports? That's not going to last, as the dollar is gaining strength against other currencies. What is going to save us? Someone please tell me, becacuse from where I'm standing, I see a minimum of five years of PAIN. This is the reckoning for the recklessness of the last two decades. Anyone want to take bets? Best of luck to us all.

box

 

[JohnDoe]

Amen boxjockey.

As you stated, 2/3 of the economy is the consumer. Well, the consumer is tapped out, alot of 'em in debt up to their eyeballs, losing jobs, stagnant pay, inflation (the real numbers, not the politician bs) and the ATM machine known as their house has been unplugged.

I'd like to know what could possibly save us at this point as well. Adding more tax burden on the masses with huge bailouts? IMHO the easy credit craze can't continue forever. It will only delay the inevitable.

 

[Daddy]

Future of airlines.....

1) Strong dollar will hurt international travel more than domestic

2) Domestic travel will suck too

3) There will not be an airline bailout

4) Any company who goes into BK now will probably go Ch 7 as there will be no financing to come out of Ch 11

5) While some are better off than others, we will all feel this in one way or another...just surviving will be key as there will be much less competition out there when this is over with and the survivors will reap the benefits of the reduced competition

6) If you think McCain will not sell our collective airline labor souls, you are as delusional as those who think Obama and a total democratic mandate in the house and senate will not raise their taxes or kill their company through over-regulation and corporate taxes

7) I would still rather fly than do some boring office job

 

[scoreboardII]

What boxjockey said.

Also, 6 months of calm in the DOW 6-9000 range as those with money get theirs out and Governments throw cash at the bottomless pit LOOKING like they know what they are doing.

Then when Joe Citizen realizes his bank reduced his credit limit from $20k to right where his balance is, $12K, he is out of credit and now has a 15% loan to be repaid. Joe now stops spending, or defaults and becomes another statistic. Either way, Joe stops spending, people are out of work, the spiral begins and doesn't end until the books are balanced at bottom, I say DOW 5000ish. At DOW 8000 we are at about 17PE, we need to be at 10PE.

Half of the following will close: Starbucks, car dealers, big box home repair stores, malls, and banks.
It will take about 3-5 years for this to work itself out.

It won't correct until WE take the economy back and start making stuff again. Screw China.

There will be soup lines.

50% of all airlines will be gone, 70% of all capacity will be gone.

Your house will be worth 30-50% of what it was worth when this started. If you can afford the payments, you get to pay the original price even if it's two or three times the value. The government will only let those who can't pay get off...

Governments will step in and regulate the airlines to keep the industry alive as a national neccesity...

Not quite Escape from New York, but close...

 

[Poahi]

some people say Netjets won't be affected because rich people who own their own....

Bye Bye--General Lee

True, but after this week, a lot of rich people aren't rich anymore.

The next wave is going to be the pull down of international flying.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

What boxjockey said.

Also, 6 months of calm in the DOW 6-9000 range as those with money get theirs out and Governments throw cash at the bottomless pit LOOKING like they know what they are doing.

Then when Joe Citizen realizes his bank reduced his credit limit from $20k to right where his balance is, $12K, he is out of credit and now has a 15% loan to be repaid. Joe now stops spending, or defaults and becomes another statistic. Either way, Joe stops spending, people are out of work, the spiral begins and doesn't end until the books are balanced at bottom, I say DOW 5000ish. At DOW 8000 we are at about 17PE, we need to be at 10PE.

Half of the following will close: Starbucks, car dealers, big box home repair stores, malls, and banks.
It will take about 3-5 years for this to work itself out.

It won't correct until WE take the economy back and start making stuff again. Screw China.

There will be soup lines.

50% of all airlines will be gone, 70% of all capacity will be gone.

Your house will be worth 30-50% of what it was worth when this started. If you can afford the payments, you get to pay the original price even if it's two or three times the value. The government will only let those who can't pay get off...

Governments will step in and regulate the airlines to keep the industry alive as a national neccesity...

Not quite Escape from New York, but close...

A dire prediction. Just like wx forecasting it could happen, but I'd bet that more that because every country in the world is in the same boat, that the collective minds of all the financial world experts in this information age will find enough solutions to soften the blow.

My main concern is that because of populism, whatever measures that are taken now will only help for a few years but won't stop inevitable problems in the future. Although I really hate age 65 rule and in this career find it quite doable and logical for health purposes to retire as a pilot by then, I must add that society in general has unrealistic unproductive expectations to retire completely from the workforce at age 60 give or take a few years while the life expectancy continues to go up. Add that to an overall unhealthy lifestyle mix while expecting health care as a basic right and for said health care to provide life sustaining care at any age. Then add a keeping up with the Joneses mentality with products from foreign countries, and you have a recipe for continuous illogical populous cultural disaster.