Thoughts regarding market's effects on airline travel?

[Max Powers]

I chose to believe this will be good. We [airlines] have already been through this, got our bailout (which was almost nothing) and have found a way to cope. This is going to dry up growth for premium travel like NJA and those folks will be back on the airline (like P Diddy). Cheap gas and more customers back competing for fewer seats means we start jacking up fares. Gonna be good.

I hope your right...And with Obama pushing for the blue collar middle class folk at least they might be able to keep buying tickets even if on a smaller scale.

 

[~~~^~~~]

As Lehman learned, being small is not good.

As AIG learned, being big is very nice. Anyone else see the Senate hearing two nights ago on CSPAN? Holy crap!

Now the other shoe is beginning to drop in Europe. Turns out their suits are more screwed up than ours. Some are saying the Euro will not survive. At the same time those risking money and effort in the developing World are reaping the benefits of being a first mover.

Delta's global network positions it well. Letting Air France take over most of the Paris flying, while being a first mover into Africa is yet another indication that Delta's doing a good job right now.

Not that anything can be taken for granted. I don't know how profitable Delta is right now and all this nifty flying doesn't mean much unless the number on the bottom line is positive.

If crowds at the airport are any indication, demand remands OK. My immediate concern is that things might seize up to the point where Captains have to carry a form of monetary exchange to refuel the jet in some places.

Experts say that is starting to flow a little better now, but anyone who lets an airline purchase a few billion dollars worth of fuel on credit has to be aware of the exposure.

 

[Max Powers]

As Lehman learned, being small is not good.

As AIG learned, being big is very nice. Anyone else see the Senate hearing two nights ago on CSPAN? Holy crap!

Now the other shoe is beginning to drop in Europe. Turns out their suits are more screwed up than ours. Some are saying the Euro will not survive. At the same time those risking money and effort in the developing World are reaping the benefits of being a first mover.

Your the biggest tard ever. Europe is nowhere near as bad off as we are. The S and P has dropped over 40 percent from its highs in 2007!!!!! If memory serves it was at 1547 now it in the 900. Europe and Asia isn't anywhere close to this level of loss. They may drop some more but won't come close to our massive losses. They are using international accountanting laws, under Bush's deregulation WE DO NOT. Therefore we have much less transparency and it is much easier to skim money from here and there so you can get that big NJ sparkly jet.

 

[crj567]

I disagree: Airlines have NOT been through anything like this before. Airlines have already has their respective poopers worn completely out with high oil, now they are about to get slammed by frzen credit markets. Any airline that files BK will liquidate-and fast!

To be clear: The market has lost @50% of its value. This hurts everyone. I am not a big enough idiot to cash out. I am personally dumping just as much in to retirement as always. The point is: the rich are as affected as the poor if not more so.

Which leads me to the following conclusion: The fractionals are going to get completely hammered. Everyone has always assumed NJA is invincible-they are not. Many of the "rich" own small businesses-which are now unable to get short-term credit. Many of these business will fail, and many of their owners will not be "rich" long.

I believe NJA is stronger than the others, but I think fractionals are going to have a very hard time, very soon. The markets get smacked down, and your 10 mil has suddenly turned to 2 mil-you ain't thinking about going to Acapulco for a couple of days-you are thinking about cashing the hell out of NJA.

I do agree that others are in weaker positions, but I would not want to be at the bottom of any frac list right now.

 

[crj567]

Your the biggest tard ever. Europe is nowhere near as bad off as we are. The S and P has dropped over 40 percent from its highs in 2007!!!!! If memory serves it was at 1547 now it in the 900. Europe and Asia isn't anywhere close to this level of loss. They may drop some more but won't come close to our massive losses. They are using international accountanting laws, under Bush's deregulation WE DO NOT. Therefore we have much less transparency and it is much easier to skim money from here and there so you can get that big NJ sparkly jet.

If you think our entire economy is based on the stock market, and what it does each day, then you may be the 'tard in the room.

Europe is in the suck just as deep-everyone is in for some suck, and when this socialist fool gets into office, you will find out just how bad things can get.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree, but NJA will fair better than the others. But yes, if this lasts they too will get theirs handed to them.

Big is good. It means you are harder to replace.

 

[Flopgut]

Big, new money is screwed. Old money types are going to be OK. There's a huge bailout in place and yet the sentiment is: It ain't enough! I wonder how this would be going if they were given the same bailout we [airline] got?

I think we are going to get to strike, merge or and run our airline careers how we need to.

I would like to see an index for Marquis Jet Card sales in the last week.

 

[Flopgut]

I disagree: Airlines have NOT been through anything like this before. Airlines have already has their respective poopers worn completely out with high oil, now they are about to get slammed by frzen credit markets. Any airline that files BK will liquidate-and fast!

To be clear: The market has lost @50% of its value. This hurts everyone. I am not a big enough idiot to cash out. I am personally dumping just as much in to retirement as always. The point is: the rich are as affected as the poor if not more so.

Which leads me to the following conclusion: The fractionals are going to get completely hammered. Everyone has always assumed NJA is invincible-they are not. Many of the "rich" own small businesses-which are now unable to get short-term credit. Many of these business will fail, and many of their owners will not be "rich" long.

I believe NJA is stronger than the others, but I think fractionals are going to have a very hard time, very soon. The markets get smacked down, and your 10 mil has suddenly turned to 2 mil-you ain't thinking about going to Acapulco for a couple of days-you are thinking about cashing the hell out of NJA.

I do agree that others are in weaker positions, but I would not want to be at the bottom of any frac list right now.

Airlines can't get much worse. Our costs just went down with fuel and the amount of money we need is small-ish.

NJA is going to be OK. They just aren't going to grow. Which I think is perfectly fine with them. There are probably a lot of super rich types who are tired of sharing their "royal barges" with so many others. The days of the 50 thousand dollar transcon occasionalist on a private jet are drawing to a close. They won't quit flying, they'll be back on the airline.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That is the point.
Good for us. But it is all cyclical isn't it?

 

[climbhappy]

just a month ago, factory orders had risen for 5 straight months. this harbinger was pointing toward a strenthening. the market selloff has simply brought share prices in line with PE ratios. the underlying economic factors are still good. christmas willll suck though for many.

as 9/11 proved video conferencing has its limits. you still need to go see your best customers in person and that will never change. Hence, biz travel in 09 will be stable IMHO.

 

[Max Powers]

If you think our entire economy is based on the stock market, and what it does each day, then you may be the 'tard in the room.

Europe is in the suck just as deep-everyone is in for some suck, and when this socialist fool gets into office, you will find out just how bad things can get.

God I just love you Neoconservative folks...You hate Europeans so much why??? They are still capitalist like the USA. They just use their govt to do things that the private sector has trouble doing - ie Health care, public transportation etc.

And yes much of the economy is based on the Markets. Ever study the great depression and what happened then to the markets? The Markets usually react 6 months earlier than what the real economy is doing. We haven't seen nothing yet!!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Your the biggest tard ever.

Our biggest oil field is in our drive way! Average mpg is 22 in the USA in the UK it is 52 mpg........We need a gas tax on automotive gas this will keep demand down and prices low for aviation fuel....

Speaks for itself.

 

[Max Powers]

Speaks for itself.

Yes its called being practical and planning for the future. Adam Smith never worked, we need a happy medium and I say: pushing policies to get people to change their behaviors will save this country from its greed and arrogance.

That is why a man named OBAMA is winning. And yes I can't wait for that to happen...

So Fin what is wrong with Good gas mileage and being efficient? Seriously I'd like to know? Yes you are a tard.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Nothing is wrong with it, just expecting it to happen with one person or another is.
I think that this country as a whole, republicans included have come to a realization that we as a whole need to change our ways.

No lets stop the political stuff.

 

[Max Powers]

Nothing is wrong with it, just expecting it to happen with one person or another is.
I think that this country as a whole, republicans included have come to a realization that we as a whole need to change our ways.

No lets stop the political stuff.

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!! The Dems have been saying that for decades but can't fight the political right to get the legislation past. Finally some Republicans are realizing - Jee by george if we try to become more efficient and pass laws to increase our gas mileages then hey we might reduce our dependence on foreign oil. WOW what a concept.

However, I'm a realist....there will always be a Palin around the corner who thinks Drill baby Drill is the answer and not the problem. I pick my battles and this is a good one. Time to fight the Palins of the world!!!!!!