airchristyle
West Coastin'
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Those darn regional pilots overflew MSP!!!
- Thread starter buscap
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JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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Andy...What could Congress or the FAA have done to prevent these two incidents this week (MSP and ATL)...Specifics please....
COOPERVANE
Member since 1967
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- Mar 2, 2002
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- 2,167
Ok. Let's say that they did get into that heated conversation about company policies, but come on, you've got 4 screens up there, all showing navigational information. You're saying that for the better part of 2 hours neither pilot glanced at the screens, or out of the corner of their eyes noticed their position, or the absence of a course line?
I've had comm problems before, but I've always known my general position, even before glass.
All I can say is that it most have been some conversation!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've had comm problems before, but I've always known my general position, even before glass.
All I can say is that it most have been some conversation!!!!!!!!!!!!
Poahi
Well-known member
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- Nov 19, 2005
- Posts
- 3,766
So they fell asleep because they weren't making enough?
PeanuckleCRJ
Hurrrrrrrr
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- Jul 21, 2004
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- 1,684
Do you really think the news was smart enough to do that? They can't tell the difference between a 747 and CRJ typically.
COOPERVANE
Member since 1967
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A-V-8
Well-known member
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- Feb 27, 2006
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- 355
Apparently not. Just doze off or just go off. Either way you will make the news.
Last edited:
Scope out RJ's
Well-known member
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- May 31, 2006
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:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:
Wait a minute joey, we'll send some tissues right over to the rjdc!
"Delta 60 Atlanta Tower, taxiway Mike, cleared to land...plan to exit...ahhhh..standby."
ImbracableCrunk
Unregistered Un-User
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- Feb 5, 2003
- Posts
- 1,481
Because the status is not quo!
buscap
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Posts
- 999
The Captain's side...I guess:
The captain of the Northwest Airlines jet that flew hundreds of miles without talking to air-traffic controllers gave two thumbs up after pulling up to the gate and told police he and the co-pilot "had become involved in conversation" and did not hear the radio.
A report released Friday by the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport police sheds new light on Flight 188, which flew about 150 miles past the airport Wednesday night as controllers frantically tried to reach the pilots and the military prepared to launch fighter jets to intercept it.
Controllers repeatedly called the pilots on the radio. Airline officials sent eight separate text messages to a communication system on the Airbus A320 jet. And an attempt was made to reach the pilots on a cellphone, the report said.
All of the attempts failed, the report said.
Officials from Delta Air Lines, which owns Northwest, had "quizzed" the pilots as they approached the airport gate, the report said. "The flight crew indicated only that they were okay and there had been flight deck distractions," police said.
The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said in a release that the pilots told police and the FBI after landing that "they were in a heated discussion over airline policy."
The actions of the crew puzzled veteran pilots and aviation safety experts. The jet flew about 600 miles over 78 minutes without talking to controllers through a busy corridor of flights headed into and out of the Chicago area.
It's not uncommon for airline crews to briefly lose contact with controllers, but there are simple procedures pilots can follow to resume contact.
Similarly, the pilots would have had to miss dozens of cues from cockpit instruments over that span indicating that the airline was trying to reach them and that they were nearing their destination, pilots said. For example, the Airbus jets are equipped with electronic maps that show pilots their destination and location.
"It is a huge head scratcher," said Ben Berman, an airline pilot who formerly worked as a National Transportation Safety Board investigator. "I do think there is a lot more to come out."
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said late Friday it had launched an investigation into the actions of the two pilots. The investigation could lead to an emergency suspension or a revocation of their pilots' licenses.
Police identified that captain as Timothy Cheney and the first officer as Richard Cole.
Both men "were cooperative, apologetic and appreciative," the report said. They volunteered to be tested for alcohol in their systems. Both tests were negative.
Documenting exactly what happened may prove difficult, however.
The so-called "black box" that records sounds in the cockpit is a model that stores only about 30 minutes of sound, the NTSB said.
That means that none of the conversation or sounds that occurred while the pilots were out of contact was captured. The crew resumed contact with controllers at 8:14 p.m. and landed about an hour later, according to the NTSB and Delta.
The only thing that could help investigators is if the pilots talked about what had happened earlier, said John Cox, a former airline pilot who is a safety consultant.
"There may be some discussion about it, but mostly it's going to be" a recording of the pilots as they prepared for a normal landing, Cox said.
Investigators also are reviewing the jet's data recorder, which may be more helpful. The data recorder monitors navigation, engines and computers on a jet and could help investigators understand what the pilots were doing during the flight.
The San Diego-to-Minneapolis flight was carrying 144 passengers, three flight attendants and two pilots, Delta Air Lines spokesman Ed Stewart said. Delta and Northwest merged a year ago but still fly under separate names.
The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) had been preparing to intercept the jet with four fighters, spokesman Michael Kucharek said. Before the fighters could get airborne, the Northwest pilots got back on the radio with controllers, Kucharek said. Unlike when terrorists hijacked jets on Sept. 11, 2001, the Northwest jet continued to send automatic radio beacons to radar that identified it, said Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Laura Brown.
The case resembles a Go airlines flight to Hilo, Hawaii, on Feb. 13, 2008, in which both pilots fell asleep. The jet flew for 18 minutes without responding to controllers. It flew past Hilo and was headed toward open ocean when it turned around.
The NTSB has also raised concerns about pilots in several recent fatal accidents who made critical errors after becoming distracted by non-work-related conversations. Federal rules bar pilots from casual conversations below 10,000 feet. The Northwest jet was cruising at 37,000 feet.
Investigators will look at whether fatigue or other factors played a role in Wednesday's incident, said NTSB spokesman Keith Holloway.
After leaving San Diego, the jet flew over Colorado, Kansas and Nebraska. Somewhere in that area, the pilots failed to respond to a controller's instruction to switch radio frequencies, Brown said.
Controllers tried repeatedly to reach the jet, said Brown and Doug Church, with the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. They contacted Delta, hoping it could contact the pilots, Brown said.
The pilots have been relieved of flying duties pending investigations, Stewart said.
Modern jets have auto pilots that allow them to fly long distances with little or no input from pilots.
Contributing: Kevin Johnson
The captain of the Northwest Airlines jet that flew hundreds of miles without talking to air-traffic controllers gave two thumbs up after pulling up to the gate and told police he and the co-pilot "had become involved in conversation" and did not hear the radio.
A report released Friday by the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport police sheds new light on Flight 188, which flew about 150 miles past the airport Wednesday night as controllers frantically tried to reach the pilots and the military prepared to launch fighter jets to intercept it.
Controllers repeatedly called the pilots on the radio. Airline officials sent eight separate text messages to a communication system on the Airbus A320 jet. And an attempt was made to reach the pilots on a cellphone, the report said.
All of the attempts failed, the report said.
Officials from Delta Air Lines, which owns Northwest, had "quizzed" the pilots as they approached the airport gate, the report said. "The flight crew indicated only that they were okay and there had been flight deck distractions," police said.
The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said in a release that the pilots told police and the FBI after landing that "they were in a heated discussion over airline policy."
The actions of the crew puzzled veteran pilots and aviation safety experts. The jet flew about 600 miles over 78 minutes without talking to controllers through a busy corridor of flights headed into and out of the Chicago area.
It's not uncommon for airline crews to briefly lose contact with controllers, but there are simple procedures pilots can follow to resume contact.
Similarly, the pilots would have had to miss dozens of cues from cockpit instruments over that span indicating that the airline was trying to reach them and that they were nearing their destination, pilots said. For example, the Airbus jets are equipped with electronic maps that show pilots their destination and location.
"It is a huge head scratcher," said Ben Berman, an airline pilot who formerly worked as a National Transportation Safety Board investigator. "I do think there is a lot more to come out."
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said late Friday it had launched an investigation into the actions of the two pilots. The investigation could lead to an emergency suspension or a revocation of their pilots' licenses.
Police identified that captain as Timothy Cheney and the first officer as Richard Cole.
Both men "were cooperative, apologetic and appreciative," the report said. They volunteered to be tested for alcohol in their systems. Both tests were negative.
Documenting exactly what happened may prove difficult, however.
The so-called "black box" that records sounds in the cockpit is a model that stores only about 30 minutes of sound, the NTSB said.
That means that none of the conversation or sounds that occurred while the pilots were out of contact was captured. The crew resumed contact with controllers at 8:14 p.m. and landed about an hour later, according to the NTSB and Delta.
The only thing that could help investigators is if the pilots talked about what had happened earlier, said John Cox, a former airline pilot who is a safety consultant.
"There may be some discussion about it, but mostly it's going to be" a recording of the pilots as they prepared for a normal landing, Cox said.
Investigators also are reviewing the jet's data recorder, which may be more helpful. The data recorder monitors navigation, engines and computers on a jet and could help investigators understand what the pilots were doing during the flight.
The San Diego-to-Minneapolis flight was carrying 144 passengers, three flight attendants and two pilots, Delta Air Lines spokesman Ed Stewart said. Delta and Northwest merged a year ago but still fly under separate names.
The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) had been preparing to intercept the jet with four fighters, spokesman Michael Kucharek said. Before the fighters could get airborne, the Northwest pilots got back on the radio with controllers, Kucharek said. Unlike when terrorists hijacked jets on Sept. 11, 2001, the Northwest jet continued to send automatic radio beacons to radar that identified it, said Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Laura Brown.
The case resembles a Go airlines flight to Hilo, Hawaii, on Feb. 13, 2008, in which both pilots fell asleep. The jet flew for 18 minutes without responding to controllers. It flew past Hilo and was headed toward open ocean when it turned around.
The NTSB has also raised concerns about pilots in several recent fatal accidents who made critical errors after becoming distracted by non-work-related conversations. Federal rules bar pilots from casual conversations below 10,000 feet. The Northwest jet was cruising at 37,000 feet.
Investigators will look at whether fatigue or other factors played a role in Wednesday's incident, said NTSB spokesman Keith Holloway.
After leaving San Diego, the jet flew over Colorado, Kansas and Nebraska. Somewhere in that area, the pilots failed to respond to a controller's instruction to switch radio frequencies, Brown said.
Controllers tried repeatedly to reach the jet, said Brown and Doug Church, with the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. They contacted Delta, hoping it could contact the pilots, Brown said.
The pilots have been relieved of flying duties pending investigations, Stewart said.
Modern jets have auto pilots that allow them to fly long distances with little or no input from pilots.
Contributing: Kevin Johnson
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
Is General Lee on the A320 yet?:laugh:
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