This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!

[THUGLIFE]

To all working towards an airline. Stop right now and look for a new career. Don’t listen to the hype of your flight school! They just want your money. I’m so sick of this #$#@!!!!!! No pay for two months, when I do get my check I have deductions for my &%^$& uniform!!!!!!!!!!!!!. My two days off reserve, I spend traveling, Just to get home for a few hours!!!!!!!!!!. Then it starts all over. It never ends or pays off. You will be stuck at a regional for the rest of your career, making the same pay as a ups truck driver. That’s the reality. I’m not trying to be negative, just to let you know this sucks. I wish I had really known what this was all about long ago, I wasted so much time and money!!!! Yeah we all love flying but when you can't afford to pay your meager bills and qualify for food stamps, you really begin to wonder. *#&# I cant even afford to pay rent!!!!!!!!!!!

Well got to go work on my real-estate license, to try to dig myself out of this hole. Normally I would not write something like this, but I’m so discouraged and fed up with this industry. Good luck......

 

[mattaxelrod]

Well, if you're not using your job anymore, can I have it?

 

[avbug]

Probably just as well. However, before you embark on your next career, do a little more research.

The life and pay of a pilot isn't exactly a state secret.

 

[viper548]

Well got to go work on my real-estate license, to try to dig myself out of this hole. Normally I would not write something like this, but I’m so discouraged and fed up with this industry. Good luck......

I heard that industry is starting to look like ours. Agents dropping their fees/commission to undercut the competition

 

[labbats]

Well got to go work on my real-estate license, to try to dig myself out of this hole. Normally I would not write something like this, but I’m so discouraged and fed up with this industry. Good luck......

Just in time for the housing bubble to burst. There's no free lunch anywhere. And I agree that we are underpaid, but it does get better second year at a decent regional.

 

[banned username 2]

Well, if you're not using your job anymore, can I have it?

THIS is EXACTLY the problem with our industry... When someone says "I've had enough, I'm not going to take it anymore!" There is always someone standing right behind them in line, bent over and willing to take their place, for the same (or less) crap wages and crappy work rules... All just to fly a shiny RJ... Hope these kids enjoy flying the RJ's, because that is probably what they will fly the rest of their career...

 

[Inconceivable]

No, Falcon. Those are the WAGES they will be working for--but the equipment will get bigger.

 

[Prop2Jet]

WAAAAA WAAAA WAAAA.....

Its a job, you don't like it leave, go be something else. This country is not communist last time I checked. O yeah, their will always be someone their to take the others job no matter what career you are in.... ITS A CAPITALIST COUNTRY AND THAT IS HOW IT WORKS!

Problems with wages, time off, etc... quitting will not solve these issues. Take a stand and change it rather than have those "new kids" attempt to pick up your slack and ineptness to change the pace of things.

"A Pilot's Career isn't about the destination... It's about the journey... For without the journey, the destination has no significance..." How significant is your journey worth is you quit without having the patience to see it through?

 

[THUGLIFE]

My mother has made 30K+ in the last 6 months just starting real-estate. Dad 168K one deal. I invest 400$ for a license, and make 1000k its worth it. Yeah the bubble is going to burst soon, I have nothing to loose.
I should have studied out the industry more before investing so much time and money. Just want to let others know what they are getting into.
I try to be a very positive person, I guess its what you make of it.
Mattexalrod, I’m sure you will be here with us soon, sounds like this is for you.
Just a bit frustrating to see you buddy, (who dropped out of college) selling cell phones and making 60k+ a year, and buying a house to see its value nearly double,as you sleep on his couch.

Currently behind life's power curve.

 

[Tram]

Perhaps "ThugLife" would be more suited to you?

Falcon Capt - While I understand what your saying - what do you expect those of us with no job to do? Sit there? I'm sure your first job may have replaced someone who gave the industry the finger...

 

[banned username 2]

Falcon Capt - While I understand what your saying - what do you expect those of us with no job to do? Sit there? I'm sure your first job may have replaced someone who gave the industry the finger...

My first flying job was as a CFI, making $14,000 a year salary (about $21,000 a year in today's dollars), back in 1991... It was as entry level as entry level gets...

 

[de727ups]

"I should have studied out the industry more before investing so much time and money."

Exactly what did you think about this industry before you invested in it? What did you use to justify your decisions?

I ask because I'm the chief watchdawg with respect to big academy marketing at another website and whenever I bring up the misleading picture these schools paint, I'm told that anyone who enters the industry without seeing the big picture deserves what they get.

Personally, I think it's criminal the way these academies sell the career to get you to sign on the dotted line.

 

[Tram]

My first flying job was as a CFI, making $14,000 a year salary (about $21,000 a year in today's dollars), back in 1991... It was as entry level as entry level gets...

Well, while we're bragging.. I'm flight instructing and making $10K a year salary in 2005 dollars.. A lil' more entry level, I would think - but that is semantics..

I meant your first "airline" job... Either way, it's a bit of screwed if you do, screwed if you don't... What is today's CFI with 1,500 hours to do? Sit and say "no, I will not take this job." While some other kid will and just leave us in the dust?

That's all I'm asking.. We all get bashed for the whole "SJS" syndrome, which is completely overused.. Would I love to fly a "Shiny jet?" sure, who wouldn't.. Would I take a job with a decent company flying RJ's? Sure.. Would I take a job with a decent company flying DoJet's or Saab 340's? Sure.. Hardly SJS...

While SJS does exist - I have flown with several 400 hours guys "just waiting to hit 500 to send out those resume's" and refer to anyone flying anything with a prop "prop trash." I think they are the exception rather than the rule..

A low time guy, who wants to get a "foot in the door" in this industry is IMMEDIATELY branded as having SJS for trying to pursue a job..

I guess I should just flight instruct until the industry "changes."

 

[mnalpha]

should not of got a job with mesa then, you jerk off

 

[mccube5]

you know i really just don't get some people. i understand that the days of making $250K/yr. are for the most part long gone. it seems to me that all the people sitting on their computer and ripping the industry either got in it thinking that they would make $100K their first year and that you would only have to work about 1/2 the month or less. the reality of life is that nothing is free, it's a bitch, and you have to shovel sh!t before you own the farm. now im 22 years old attending Delta's Academy working on my CFI. i do think it was a little silly to spend the money ive spent on this, but i think it will be worth it in the end. i am getting a great education and progressing a lot faster than i did while training part 61 back home. i have years of hell ahead of me with less than stellar pay. but i couldnt be more excited about it. u have to find the good in everything. i can't wait to meet half the people i know i will. i know it will be at least 10 years before im making close to what i expect(and know i will) to make if i just work hard and do my job. there are so many jobs out there, and good ones at that. and this industry is only getting bigger. when its all said and done i know i will haev a long and rewarding career to look back on with plenty of money in the bank and everything i really want.

to all those who sit around and bash it, thank you for getting out, you would have been miserable to work with and youve now opened up another spot in the system for me.

to those who are in it or just getting started, i look forward to working with as many of you i can and making some great friendships along the way.

 

[Tram]

Rock on mccube!

 

[banned username 2]

I meant your first "airline" job... Either way, it's a bit of screwed if you do, screwed if you don't... What is today's CFI with 1,500 hours to do? Sit and say "no, I will not take this job." While some other kid will and just leave us in the dust?

I didn't have a first "airline" job... I refused to go work at the "commuters" for less money than I was making as a CFI at the time... I waited until the job I wanted came along (Charter) and took that, it paid about 50% more than what the "Commuters" of the day were paying... As for the "Kids who passed me by" and went to the "Commuters"... Unfortunately, most of them are either furloughed or have moved on to a different industry...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Well, while we're bragging.. I'm flight instructing and making $10K a year salary in 2005 dollars.. A lil' more entry level, I would think - but that is semantics..

I meant your first "airline" job... Either way, it's a bit of screwed if you do, screwed if you don't... What is today's CFI with 1,500 hours to do? Sit and say "no, I will not take this job." While some other kid will and just leave us in the dust?

That's all I'm asking.. We all get bashed for the whole "SJS" syndrome, which is completely overused.. Would I love to fly a "Shiny jet?" sure, who wouldn't.. Would I take a job with a decent company flying RJ's? Sure.. Would I take a job with a decent company flying DoJet's or Saab 340's? Sure.. Hardly SJS...

While SJS does exist - I have flown with several 400 hours guys "just waiting to hit 500 to send out those resume's" and refer to anyone flying anything with a prop "prop trash." I think they are the exception rather than the rule..

A low time guy, who wants to get a "foot in the door" in this industry is IMMEDIATELY branded as having SJS for trying to pursue a job..

I guess I should just flight instruct until the industry "changes."

No offense, but you have to be a fool to be making your goal the Airlines these days.

Unless you have been living under a rock since 2000 you would know that this is not a "downturn" that is coming back anytime soon. Why would one continue to pursue aviation as a career when there is a strong possibility that he/she may sit in some RJ indefinitly?

The "commuters" are no longer a stepping stone where pilots suffered for a few years until mainline called them, they are now a life sentence.

 

[BoilerUP]

I think that while the career expectations of airline pilots have taken a large hit the past 5 years, I still don't think it is the crappy sh!t job so many on this board have made it out to be.

Sure I could make 125K+ in a good corporate job...but I really don't want to move to VNY or TEB. In the time it would realistically take for me to get into a position like that (ignoring the military option and going 135 or corporate and flying/networking my ass off) I could be an RJ captain making $75K or more per year. Is that what I was hoping for when I got started? No...but at that point I think being able to maximize my QOL and pay by living in a place of my choosing with a much lower cost of living would negate most of the difference in W2s.

The dream job for one person is a terrible job for another, and vice versa. As long as people are happy and content with their jobs and don't constantly bitch, I don't think it really matters.

 

[Swaayze]

Well, after all he HAS put in 1200 hours and flown at least 5 different types of airplanes.............


Nothing personal Thug, you're actually wiser than me obviously!

 

[Matt777]

I've wanted to be a pilot since I was 11 but couldn't ever afford it... but now that I have experienced all the non-pilot of jobs that are available over the last 12 years and know that they make me miserable I have just taken the plunge on a $50,000 loan to go to ATP.

Lots of debt for a paycheck that is extrememly low- for at least the first year at a regional... and probably lower than that while instructing in order to even get to the regional. But there is nothing else I'd rather do.

Whether or not it is right for someone depends on their priorities. If you have a family or a wife or a mortgage it is probably a really terrible idea.

If you think that happiness is dependant upon your income level instead of knowing that happiness comes from doing what you love- then it is a really bad idea to be a pilot.
If you don't like travelling or have a family that you will be missing while you are away it is a really bad idea to pursue being a pilot.

But I don't have any of those problems.


Hey I have a newbie "low-timer" question... when a pilot gets hired at an airline they know they are going to be on reserve so why don't they just move to that city instead of making their life a miserable stress-filled commuting hell? just curious.

 

[Matt777]

No offense, but you have to be a fool to be making your goal the Airlines these days.

Unless you have been living under a rock since 2000 you would know that this is not a "downturn" that is coming back anytime soon. Why would one continue to pursue aviation as a career when there is a strong possibility that he/she may sit in some RJ indefinitly?

The "commuters" are no longer a stepping stone where pilots suffered for a few years until mainline called them, they are now a life sentence.

While the majors are downturing the regionals appear to be hiring plenty (check my info on the left to see my level of inexperience and naivete )...

I'm sure that an RJ "life sentence" sounds like hell to an established professional pilot, but to guys just starting out it sounds MUCH more attractive than working in a cubicle chained to a computer and phone!

In fact, I'd even be happy flying a Q400!!! That's not even an RJ!

I must be crazy, huh?
Certifiably plane crazy actually.

Perhaps I should point out that I'm not some moron who simply thinks airplanes are "neato"... I love flying IMC- particularly precision approaches at minimums. That's my idea of fun. I did tell you I was crazy, right?

 

[mayday1]

Matt777, it certainly sounds like you have a good sense of what some of the challenges are... poor pay, QOL issues, industry instability/volatility, etc. However, there are many pilots who will tell you that after some time passes (and I guess this is different for everyone), and the excitement/novelty of flying an RJ around wears a bit, you're now left with a JOB.. and a job that has poor pay and QOL issues in a volatile industry.

 

[erj-145mech]

I wish I had really known what this was all about long ago, I wasted so much time and money!!!! Yeah we all love flying but when you can't afford to pay your meager bills and qualify for food stamps, you really begin to wonder. *#&# I cant even afford to pay rent!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck......

You didn't listen you your guidance councelor did you? Welcome to life. There are very few jobs that are really hobbies that pay well. Shouda done some career homework while you were in school.

Wish you well in your future endeavors, and I hate to say it, but I don't think that this industry will miss you much.

 

[THUGLIFE]

Mccube, you have a great attitude just like I did during training. I don’t thing any of us went into the industry thinking we would make 100k a year or 30k for that matter. But when you just landed your dream job and your making 16k a year( 19k -3 months no pay) you begin to wonder. That works out to be about 8 dollars and hour full time.
I would be very careful about Delta Academy, I worked with a few instructors from there most were 70k+ indebt one 90K+, sounds pretty expensive. They are excellent at marketing and just want your money.
I understand nothing in life is free, I paid my way through college fighting forest fires, just like every one else. Worked endless 15 hour days to get paid for 5. Your right it will get better, some day I will earn a livable wage.
I’m so excited I get to see my girlfriend(soon to be fiancé) this Saturday, for 12 hours. I have only spent a week or so with her in the last 4 months. I have 2 days off reserve, so 3/4 of day one will be spent traveling to her. I get to spend one night with her, then day two will be spent traveling home. Not to bad considering I will get to see her again next week for 12 hours. Wish I could afford to by her buddy passes to come and see me. Maybe I should just put it on the card, like everything else. Hopefully I will be home within the next 2 months, things will be better then.
I’m sorry if this is not what Delta Academy told you life would be like. But I wish I would have known all this before I started traing. My fault though. I’m not sure what you are planning on earning, but if 70k is enough for ya, then you will be fine. Good luck finishing up your CFI and congrats on all your other ratings and licenses.

currently on city arrest

 

[Matt777]

Matt777, it certainly sounds like you have a good sense of what some of the challenges are... poor pay, QOL issues, industry instability/volatility, etc. However, there are many pilots who will tell you that after some time passes (and I guess this is different for everyone), and the excitement/novelty of flying an RJ around wears a bit, you're now left with a JOB.. and a job that has poor pay and QOL issues in a volatile industry.

Yeah, I have a friend who is a pilot and has been tired of it for years. I know another pilot who doesn't mind it at all... he says that for what they pay him he'd wear a clown suit- he doesn't care! He likes flying.

But yes, I know it becomes just another job. Compared to all the other things I could choose to do - and have them turn into another boring job too- I'd rather fly. Even if all I ever did was instruct, that is prefereable to everything else that I know is out there for jobs.

This pay doesn't look too bad- $35 in the second year- of course year 1 is difficult if you don't have an inexpensive lifestyle... or even if you do!

http://www.pilotjobs.com/default.lasso?page=airline&airline=9

Maybe I'll even get there this decade- that would be cool (ATP instructors log tons of multi time).

I'd rather be travelling and crashing in hotels (or flight instructing) than working in customer service.

 

[THUGLIFE]

erj-mec, Yeah I did listen to my advisors, they painted a bit different picture. If this is life I have been living it for 3 years now, thanks for the welcome in. I knew what I was getting into when In interviewed. Yeah life sucks sometimes.
I reached my goal, time to set new ones.

 

[Almerick07]

The airlines will recover in one way or another. These crusty old majors operating under chapter 11 will be forced to reinvent their business models and given the resources they already have will flourish once again. Despite what everyone says there are airlines out there making money. We will probably never see the $250k/yr pay we once saw but after paying some dues we will all be able to call somewhere home, send suzy to college and buy a new car. Most of the pilots who were making $250k/yr paid their dues along the way as well either in the military or flying freight in the middle of the night. It is just this generations mind set of instant gratification that gets these SJS kids in trouble. Regional airlines have ALWAYS been a civilian stepping stone to the majors, and they have all paid crap through out the history of time. Stop whining and either suck it up and work for what you want or get out, if you cant be happy making $20 an hour in a brand new RJ with only 1500 hours you do need to re-evaluate your career decision and move on if you want to go make the big bucks instantly....something tells me you will be on some real estate forum wondering why the bottom fell out of the housing industry as soon as you got your real estate license.

 

[Tram]

I didn't have a first "airline" job... I refused to go work at the "commuters" for less money than I was making as a CFI at the time... I waited until the job I wanted came along (Charter) and took that, it paid about 50% more than what the "Commuters" of the day were paying... As for the "Kids who passed me by" and went to the "Commuters"... Unfortunately, most of them are either furloughed or have moved on to a different industry...

Well, it sounds like I have done some things similar to you. Where I am instructing, I am surrounded by guys with 500 hours who all wonder "why haven't you left yet?" "why are you still instructing?" Simply because I am waiting on the job I want, to come along.. That is why I am still here.. I even passed up Colgan..

I am not trying to argue or anything of the sort, I am asking in all honesty, what guys in my position should do.. Alot of you guys are the ones who have "been there, done that" and can lend some very valuable advice..

No offense, but you have to be a fool to be making your goal the Airlines these days.

There is nothing wrong with making it a "goal." Is it achieveable? Who knows, but I might as well try to get there, afterall - I definitely won't get there if I never try.. I will go ahead and tell you my "goal." FedEx.. My dad loves it, all his friends love it - and they all are very encouraging.. Will I make it? Who knows, I'll come back in 15 years and let you know.

 

[Cat3C]

My first flying job was as a CFI, making $14,000 a year salary (about $21,000 a year in today's dollars), back in 1991... It was as entry level as entry level gets...

Those were the days!!!! And that included Bob Chinns on the IFR days