This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tram]

Rock on mccube!

 

[banned username 2]

I meant your first "airline" job... Either way, it's a bit of screwed if you do, screwed if you don't... What is today's CFI with 1,500 hours to do? Sit and say "no, I will not take this job." While some other kid will and just leave us in the dust?

I didn't have a first "airline" job... I refused to go work at the "commuters" for less money than I was making as a CFI at the time... I waited until the job I wanted came along (Charter) and took that, it paid about 50% more than what the "Commuters" of the day were paying... As for the "Kids who passed me by" and went to the "Commuters"... Unfortunately, most of them are either furloughed or have moved on to a different industry...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Well, while we're bragging.. I'm flight instructing and making $10K a year salary in 2005 dollars.. A lil' more entry level, I would think - but that is semantics..

I meant your first "airline" job... Either way, it's a bit of screwed if you do, screwed if you don't... What is today's CFI with 1,500 hours to do? Sit and say "no, I will not take this job." While some other kid will and just leave us in the dust?

That's all I'm asking.. We all get bashed for the whole "SJS" syndrome, which is completely overused.. Would I love to fly a "Shiny jet?" sure, who wouldn't.. Would I take a job with a decent company flying RJ's? Sure.. Would I take a job with a decent company flying DoJet's or Saab 340's? Sure.. Hardly SJS...

While SJS does exist - I have flown with several 400 hours guys "just waiting to hit 500 to send out those resume's" and refer to anyone flying anything with a prop "prop trash." I think they are the exception rather than the rule..

A low time guy, who wants to get a "foot in the door" in this industry is IMMEDIATELY branded as having SJS for trying to pursue a job..

I guess I should just flight instruct until the industry "changes."

No offense, but you have to be a fool to be making your goal the Airlines these days.

Unless you have been living under a rock since 2000 you would know that this is not a "downturn" that is coming back anytime soon. Why would one continue to pursue aviation as a career when there is a strong possibility that he/she may sit in some RJ indefinitly?

The "commuters" are no longer a stepping stone where pilots suffered for a few years until mainline called them, they are now a life sentence.

 

[BoilerUP]

I think that while the career expectations of airline pilots have taken a large hit the past 5 years, I still don't think it is the crappy sh!t job so many on this board have made it out to be.

Sure I could make 125K+ in a good corporate job...but I really don't want to move to VNY or TEB. In the time it would realistically take for me to get into a position like that (ignoring the military option and going 135 or corporate and flying/networking my ass off) I could be an RJ captain making $75K or more per year. Is that what I was hoping for when I got started? No...but at that point I think being able to maximize my QOL and pay by living in a place of my choosing with a much lower cost of living would negate most of the difference in W2s.

The dream job for one person is a terrible job for another, and vice versa. As long as people are happy and content with their jobs and don't constantly bitch, I don't think it really matters.

 

[Swaayze]

Well, after all he HAS put in 1200 hours and flown at least 5 different types of airplanes.............


Nothing personal Thug, you're actually wiser than me obviously!

 

[Matt777]

I've wanted to be a pilot since I was 11 but couldn't ever afford it... but now that I have experienced all the non-pilot of jobs that are available over the last 12 years and know that they make me miserable I have just taken the plunge on a $50,000 loan to go to ATP.

Lots of debt for a paycheck that is extrememly low- for at least the first year at a regional... and probably lower than that while instructing in order to even get to the regional. But there is nothing else I'd rather do.

Whether or not it is right for someone depends on their priorities. If you have a family or a wife or a mortgage it is probably a really terrible idea.

If you think that happiness is dependant upon your income level instead of knowing that happiness comes from doing what you love- then it is a really bad idea to be a pilot.
If you don't like travelling or have a family that you will be missing while you are away it is a really bad idea to pursue being a pilot.

But I don't have any of those problems.


Hey I have a newbie "low-timer" question... when a pilot gets hired at an airline they know they are going to be on reserve so why don't they just move to that city instead of making their life a miserable stress-filled commuting hell? just curious.

 

[Matt777]

No offense, but you have to be a fool to be making your goal the Airlines these days.

Unless you have been living under a rock since 2000 you would know that this is not a "downturn" that is coming back anytime soon. Why would one continue to pursue aviation as a career when there is a strong possibility that he/she may sit in some RJ indefinitly?

The "commuters" are no longer a stepping stone where pilots suffered for a few years until mainline called them, they are now a life sentence.

While the majors are downturing the regionals appear to be hiring plenty (check my info on the left to see my level of inexperience and naivete )...

I'm sure that an RJ "life sentence" sounds like hell to an established professional pilot, but to guys just starting out it sounds MUCH more attractive than working in a cubicle chained to a computer and phone!

In fact, I'd even be happy flying a Q400!!! That's not even an RJ!

I must be crazy, huh?
Certifiably plane crazy actually.

Perhaps I should point out that I'm not some moron who simply thinks airplanes are "neato"... I love flying IMC- particularly precision approaches at minimums. That's my idea of fun. I did tell you I was crazy, right?

 

[mayday1]

Matt777, it certainly sounds like you have a good sense of what some of the challenges are... poor pay, QOL issues, industry instability/volatility, etc. However, there are many pilots who will tell you that after some time passes (and I guess this is different for everyone), and the excitement/novelty of flying an RJ around wears a bit, you're now left with a JOB.. and a job that has poor pay and QOL issues in a volatile industry.

 

[erj-145mech]

I wish I had really known what this was all about long ago, I wasted so much time and money!!!! Yeah we all love flying but when you can't afford to pay your meager bills and qualify for food stamps, you really begin to wonder. *#&# I cant even afford to pay rent!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck......

You didn't listen you your guidance councelor did you? Welcome to life. There are very few jobs that are really hobbies that pay well. Shouda done some career homework while you were in school.

Wish you well in your future endeavors, and I hate to say it, but I don't think that this industry will miss you much.

 

[THUGLIFE]

Mccube, you have a great attitude just like I did during training. I don’t thing any of us went into the industry thinking we would make 100k a year or 30k for that matter. But when you just landed your dream job and your making 16k a year( 19k -3 months no pay) you begin to wonder. That works out to be about 8 dollars and hour full time.
I would be very careful about Delta Academy, I worked with a few instructors from there most were 70k+ indebt one 90K+, sounds pretty expensive. They are excellent at marketing and just want your money.
I understand nothing in life is free, I paid my way through college fighting forest fires, just like every one else. Worked endless 15 hour days to get paid for 5. Your right it will get better, some day I will earn a livable wage.
I’m so excited I get to see my girlfriend(soon to be fiancé) this Saturday, for 12 hours. I have only spent a week or so with her in the last 4 months. I have 2 days off reserve, so 3/4 of day one will be spent traveling to her. I get to spend one night with her, then day two will be spent traveling home. Not to bad considering I will get to see her again next week for 12 hours. Wish I could afford to by her buddy passes to come and see me. Maybe I should just put it on the card, like everything else. Hopefully I will be home within the next 2 months, things will be better then.
I’m sorry if this is not what Delta Academy told you life would be like. But I wish I would have known all this before I started traing. My fault though. I’m not sure what you are planning on earning, but if 70k is enough for ya, then you will be fine. Good luck finishing up your CFI and congrats on all your other ratings and licenses.

currently on city arrest

 

[Matt777]

Matt777, it certainly sounds like you have a good sense of what some of the challenges are... poor pay, QOL issues, industry instability/volatility, etc. However, there are many pilots who will tell you that after some time passes (and I guess this is different for everyone), and the excitement/novelty of flying an RJ around wears a bit, you're now left with a JOB.. and a job that has poor pay and QOL issues in a volatile industry.

Yeah, I have a friend who is a pilot and has been tired of it for years. I know another pilot who doesn't mind it at all... he says that for what they pay him he'd wear a clown suit- he doesn't care! He likes flying.

But yes, I know it becomes just another job. Compared to all the other things I could choose to do - and have them turn into another boring job too- I'd rather fly. Even if all I ever did was instruct, that is prefereable to everything else that I know is out there for jobs.

This pay doesn't look too bad- $35 in the second year- of course year 1 is difficult if you don't have an inexpensive lifestyle... or even if you do!

http://www.pilotjobs.com/default.lasso?page=airline&airline=9

Maybe I'll even get there this decade- that would be cool (ATP instructors log tons of multi time).

I'd rather be travelling and crashing in hotels (or flight instructing) than working in customer service.

 

[THUGLIFE]

erj-mec, Yeah I did listen to my advisors, they painted a bit different picture. If this is life I have been living it for 3 years now, thanks for the welcome in. I knew what I was getting into when In interviewed. Yeah life sucks sometimes.
I reached my goal, time to set new ones.

 

[Almerick07]

The airlines will recover in one way or another. These crusty old majors operating under chapter 11 will be forced to reinvent their business models and given the resources they already have will flourish once again. Despite what everyone says there are airlines out there making money. We will probably never see the $250k/yr pay we once saw but after paying some dues we will all be able to call somewhere home, send suzy to college and buy a new car. Most of the pilots who were making $250k/yr paid their dues along the way as well either in the military or flying freight in the middle of the night. It is just this generations mind set of instant gratification that gets these SJS kids in trouble. Regional airlines have ALWAYS been a civilian stepping stone to the majors, and they have all paid crap through out the history of time. Stop whining and either suck it up and work for what you want or get out, if you cant be happy making $20 an hour in a brand new RJ with only 1500 hours you do need to re-evaluate your career decision and move on if you want to go make the big bucks instantly....something tells me you will be on some real estate forum wondering why the bottom fell out of the housing industry as soon as you got your real estate license.

 

[Tram]

I didn't have a first "airline" job... I refused to go work at the "commuters" for less money than I was making as a CFI at the time... I waited until the job I wanted came along (Charter) and took that, it paid about 50% more than what the "Commuters" of the day were paying... As for the "Kids who passed me by" and went to the "Commuters"... Unfortunately, most of them are either furloughed or have moved on to a different industry...

Well, it sounds like I have done some things similar to you. Where I am instructing, I am surrounded by guys with 500 hours who all wonder "why haven't you left yet?" "why are you still instructing?" Simply because I am waiting on the job I want, to come along.. That is why I am still here.. I even passed up Colgan..

I am not trying to argue or anything of the sort, I am asking in all honesty, what guys in my position should do.. Alot of you guys are the ones who have "been there, done that" and can lend some very valuable advice..

No offense, but you have to be a fool to be making your goal the Airlines these days.

There is nothing wrong with making it a "goal." Is it achieveable? Who knows, but I might as well try to get there, afterall - I definitely won't get there if I never try.. I will go ahead and tell you my "goal." FedEx.. My dad loves it, all his friends love it - and they all are very encouraging.. Will I make it? Who knows, I'll come back in 15 years and let you know.

 

[Cat3C]

My first flying job was as a CFI, making $14,000 a year salary (about $21,000 a year in today's dollars), back in 1991... It was as entry level as entry level gets...

Those were the days!!!! And that included Bob Chinns on the IFR days