This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!

[Regul8r]

Once stabilization occurs, pay and QOL will slowly become more comfortable. This may take a good 10 years but it will occur.

NYC Pilot, what will bring around stabilization? Pay and QOL will become more comfortable relative to what, living conditions in 3rd world countries? I don't see these improving with the current Corporate Raiders running the management teams at airlines [Southewest being an exception]. The airlines are in a race to the bottom right now with eachother and the two biggest ways to reduce operating costs are to either layoff's or paycuts. It looks to me like new talent is needed on the BOD's before anything gets better.

 

[avbug]

Don’t you think I have put in dues yet? 5 years of eating ramen and sleeping on couches to hope for 30k a year. I’m 30 years old, the last six years of my live have been devoted to getting this job.

I don't think you've put in your dues yet. I don't think you have the remotest concept of what it means to pay your dues. You sound like an arrogant spoiled kid who is just now opening his eyes for the first time, but thinks he knows it all.

I also don't think you have what it takes to survive in this industry, else you wouldn't quit.

I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me, ... I just wanted to complete the goal I sacrificed so much for.
Moving on.

Yes, you do want sympathy, and no, you haven't begun to sacrifice. You've simply started a path that you're not willing to finish. Apparently in ignorance of the obvious; pilots are a dime a dozen, few worth their weight in old salt.

I find it incomprehensible that someone would make the "sacrifices" that you claim, if they could be called as much, without so much as taking the time to enquire among professionals who have experience in the industry to learn it's true nature. That it comes as a surprise to you at this stage in the game is no slight on the industry, but an embarassment to you that you should come this far with your eyes closed. That you should quit is an embarassment to you for your lack of commitment.

You should be aware that for those who do stay with it, flying is worth the effort, and the career a rewarding one. Before you quit, at least you should know what it is that you're giving up.

Yes, it can be tough. But you didn't come this far to merely walk away, did you? You did not. Get back on the horse and ride. Your career isn't over, yet.

 

[Almerick07]

read above for rebuttle, nicely said avbug. No offense thuggie but 1200 hours in 6 years (assuming youve updated).....no wonder youve been living on couches. You must be one motivated person, you gotta fly to get paid bud. $70k in training either youre one slow learner or you got suckered by some fancy ads, if the fancy ads are the case no wonder you were so misinformed about this profession. I hope to goodness youre still on probationary pay making 19k a year, if youre not chances are you arent flying for a good company. I'm sorry youre 30 and still making crap pay, but dues are dues no matter how old you are....and the slower you pay your dues the longer they take. Why dont you do us a favor and stop complaining and do something about it, weather it be get your real estate license or find a better flying job. Your plight doesnt impress me, sorry.

 

[FreightNazi]

To all working towards an airline. Stop right now and look for a new career. Don’t listen to the hype of your flight school! They just want your money. I’m so sick of this #$#@!!!!!! No pay for two months, when I do get my check I have deductions for my &%^$& uniform!!!!!!!!!!!!!. My two days off reserve, I spend traveling, Just to get home for a few hours!!!!!!!!!!. Then it starts all over. It never ends or pays off. You will be stuck at a regional for the rest of your career, making the same pay as ups truck driver. That’s the reality. I’m not trying to be negative, just to let you know this sucks. I wish I had really known what this was all about long ago, I wasted so much time and money!!!! Yeah we all love flying but when you can't afford to pay your meager bills and qualify for food stamps, you really begin to wonder. *#&# I cant even afford to pay rent!!!!!!!!!!!

Well got to go work on my real-estate license, to try to dig myself out of this hole. Normally I would not write something like this, but I’m so discouraged and fed up with this industry. Good luck......

Actually our drivers make much more that most regional pilots.

 

[siucavflight]

The industry is not too bad for those that have been in it for a long time. For new guys I would advise to get the hell out while you still can. I am lucky enough to not really care how much money I make, if I had to worry I would choose a very, very different career, one that is in no way related to aviation.

 

[THUGLIFE]

Avbug, just for the record, I’m not the spoiled kid you may think I am. I worked 2 jobs during college, to pay my way through, my parents have never given me a dime. When I started traing ,money for flying was a little tougher to get, especially without a co-signer. So I paid for my ratings as I went, got grants anything else I could get my hands on.
For the record I have never failed a check ride or have any of my students. When I did get my CFI and started instructing I flew more than any other CFI at our school, as I worked another job. Flown cargo right seat in a "unairworthy" chieftain, not logging any of the time just to get more experience. I think I was pretty motivated.
I have been frustrated for a long time now, and I guess I’m just at a re-evaluation point. Because I speak up now does not mean I have come this far with my eyes closed.
Yeah its a tough industry, I guess I’m just getting burnt out already. My hats off everyone who keeps sticking it out.

 

[Matt777]

Thuglife, you must be in your first probationary year, to be getting paid so little, right? Won't your pay go up to an acceptable level after the first year ends? ... if not, who are you working for?

 

[350DRIVER]

THUGLIFE:

You may want to get out of this industry because to succeed you need to have a variety of factors on your side. One of them is a good attitude and another is the willingness to move for the right job. Other factors would be: decent flying skills, a good ability to network, and a little luck. Aviation is a very small industry and I have found that networking and having a good attitude are invaluable. Once those factors get you the interview you then need to display some technical competence and again, a good attitude. Maybe your rant doesn't depict you, maybe it is temporary. Obviously you did something right to get to a regional, but if you are young and already displaying the attitude of your post, you won't get much further.

This career isn't easy. I've moved 10 times since 1988, and I'm not talking about small moves. Two have been cross country and two have been overseas. For me it has paid off; I was 23 when I first upgraded at a regional, 24 when hired by a major (later furloughed and unemployed for a year), 28 when I made captain on the DC-9, and 39 when I made captain on the 777. I haven't made less than $100,000 per year since 1995.

Some lucky few get to stay with a good company or airline from when they are young to when they retire, but that really only makes up about 5% of the people who get into this business. The rest of us have to network, display a good attitude, and be competent pilots to succeed. All of my friends in this industry are successful. They have all had to work hard at it and all had to make moves to go to the right job. It hasn't been easy for most, but if you have the desire to do it, it is possible to succeed.


Typhoonpilot

I wish I had your desire, drive, and "go get em" attitude- I applaud your accomplishments and long resume of credentials at those ages. You remind me of a furloughed Airways pilot Dave Parson's, a unique breed that isn't the norm present day. I could never bring myself to moving across the country let alone half way across the world to fly the big iron. Again, congrats on getting to where you are at present day and it is satisfying to know that people like you are out there for the younger up and coming "newer generation" of pilots that frequent this board.

I would hang it up tom. morning without a second thought if I could and would not miss the flying at all, this business/industry no matter what arena of the business that you are in isn't nearly as fun as it once was but that is just my opinion.

Draginass, where you at?!

 

[macfly]

The OP did it backwards im afraid,

First; either get your real estate license and or become an investor. Surf the bubble my brother, dont worry about the bubble busting, people have been saying that for years.

Next; make enough money to pay cash for your ratings, keep doing real estate projects on the side to subsidize the lean years.

Or you could borrow 50k, live off the cockroachs in your government apartment and bitch on these here forums.

enjoy flying for flying sake, not the money because your alreaady richhhhh biiitch.

The days of taking huge loans is over, it makes no sense and your setting your self up for misery.

I did know a reg pilot that lived in his wife's - parents basement for a while, maybe he still does. He was a tool, and I dont consort what that fool any longer.

 

[F16fixer]

to all those that like making fun of SJS

My paychecks are sending me towards the $7,000 mark when a year roles around! That is for flight instructing. I live out in podunck no where. I have been building steady time and I paid around 21,000 for all my ratings. It's been a long haul. As you can see I am one of the older members on this board. (not age wise) I have done charter, corporate, teaching and I'm now flying freight overnight in a Saratoga. (The first two were right seat of course, but none the less I got a feel for the lifestyle) This freight run is building me almost 6hrs a night! I can't wait to apply to my first regional. Some old, used up dipsh!ts on here would call it SJS, but my wife calls it wanting medical insurance. (shiny medical insurance) My mom calls it shiny apartment or house syndrome, so I can move out of our cabin (trailer) on the lake so she can sell it. Me personally, I'm doing it all for the money baby. Going from 7 to 21 thousand is a three fold in my paycheck. O.k. granted I am making a little more now with the run, but it's not that great. I am a victim of SJS or shiny B1900 syndrome or shiny saab syndrome. what ever you want to call it.

Sorry, I feel like I had to finally post on this subject. It seems to be a fad right now on this board to make fun of the younger people. I 'm sure it will pass and some moron will come up with a new slogan and that will be the new craze.

It kind of reminds me of when I rolled my pants in sixth grade and then I always wanted to wear ty dyed shirts. Or when going to the skating rink on Friday nights was the cool thing to do. Of course now I was only 12 or 13 at the time.

Well it's time to go sit in the stand for awhile and wait for the big one. That is a hobby that I can afford, since sitting in a tree is free.

Peace

 

[Fly_Chick]

Thuglife, hang in there. Sometimes it is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Just take one day at a time - perhaps one hour at a time. Some things in life can be hard, very hard. Sometimes we are in the right place at the right time. Sometimes we are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most of the time we have to make our own breaks. Good luck with everything and enjoy those twelve hours, some things are life are too precious to let go!

 

[350DRIVER]

Thuglife, hang in there. Sometimes it is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Just take one day at a time - perhaps one hour at a time. Some things in life can be hard, very hard. Sometimes we are in the right place at the right time. Sometimes we are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most of the time we have to make our own breaks. Good luck with everything and enjoy those twelve hours, some things are life are too precious to let go!

Other things in life aren't that precious at all, do it long enough and quite a few realize just how short life is and when I have to decide what is most important a family or flying, it surely ain't a difficult choice or decision for me to have to make. This isn't everyone's "cup of tea" and for some it takes many years to come to that realization, for others it takes less time.

If only one could re-write history

 

[Goose Egg]

Just take one day at a time - perhaps one hour at a time. Some things in life can be hard, very hard. Sometimes we are in the right place at the right time. Sometimes we are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This is the best advice I've seen in this thread so far (avbug's notwithstanding). The worst thing in life you can get in is a hurry.

Real estate. Now there's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I mean, sure, flying may not be working out for you, but real estate? I can think of a dozen things I'd rather do.

For the record, I am instructing right now, and I'm very happy with it, and that goes for equipment, QOL, benefits, hours, and the nature of the work. I desire to have a family, though, and in order to do that, I'll need to make a bit more money. And that's really my purpose for wanting to move on. I don't have a family yet, so I'm in no rush. I'm even thinking about getting some additional ratings; commercial ASES and Helo (would get the CFIG, but hey, I've already got it!). Flying is fun, or at least it should be. If I were paid better as an instructor, I'd be hard pressed to leave it, but I'm not complaining. I'm "paying my dues" and enjoying it. Is that so bad?

I'm not completely sold on the airline career, although I may end up working for an airline for a time. I'm remaining flexible. I don't care if I fly a jet. I don't care if I turboprop. I don't care if I fly a piston. I just care that I am flying and make enough to have a family.

I'm being pretty picky about my next job. Consult my avatar for my first choice. From there? Who knows. I don't like to plan that far in advance.

-Goose

 

[RichardRambone]

Im also working my way up. Just getting my 135 mins seems to be taking forever. Not really in the scheme of things but once I do I'd be happy with a decent paying twin piston job in a nice part of the country and I know there's a lot out there. As far as airlines Im trying to avoid them but its hard sometimes considering they seem to be the only ones who will glance at my resume with my hours. Industry's in the $hitter but while Im single with virtually no debt Im gonna ride it and see where aviation takes me. I may be a crusty old bitter pilot in some time but now Im trying hard to look positively at the industry and hope I end up in my zen palace. And regards to SJS, the only thing cool I think would be to have apicture of me next to one of those shiny things and show my friends what I fly. Other than that Im sure after some time flying an RJ is proabably like flying anything else.

 

[macfly]

Goose, you sound like a good guy with a good attitude, I would not worry. Fly chick has some great advice, I think we all should take something from it.

My point is that with the way things look at the moment, It just might not be the smartest thing to take out a huge loan to get your ratings. Take your time, chip away at it slowly while developing other career skills. Dont bet the farm, especially if you dont even own one.

Real estate investing has its down side, just like every thing else. It can be extremely nasty work and some of the losers you have to deal with can bring ya down, if ya let em. I have had to fire more jackasses in the last 1.5 years then I care to recall. Its seems the bottom of the barrell gravites towards remodelling ect. But, I have free time to chase my dreams. One of those being an RV sport plane. An RV just might quench my thirst for flying, who knows? I might go back to college and get another bachelor degree, this time in marine biology and go chase sharks er something as I also love to dive.

But, im 31 and i cant keep farting around forever. Or can I

GL bud

 

[Goose Egg]

My point is that with the way things look at the moment, It just might not be the smartest thing to take out a huge loan to get your ratings.

Agree 100%. I was lucky. I lived at home and did my flying at a state school, so I only had to take out about $18K of loans, which is turning out to be pretty manageable on instructor pay. I'd advise anyone to do what I did.

An RV just might quench my thirst for flying, who knows?

Now THAT would be cool! But I don't seeing it quenching anything. It'll probably just get worse.

But, im 31 and i cant keep farting around forever. Or can I.

Well, I just turned 29, and if you asked me, I've got all the time in the world.

-Goose

 

[Fly_Chick]

For the record, I am instructing right now, and I'm very happy with it, and that goes for equipment, QOL, benefits, hours, and the nature of the work.

Flying is fun, or at least it should be. If I were paid better as an instructor, I'd be hard pressed to leave it, but I'm not complaining. I'm "paying my dues" and enjoying it. Is that so bad?

I'm not completely sold on the airline career, although I may end up working for an airline for a time. I'm remaining flexible. I don't care if I fly a jet. I don't care if I turboprop. I don't care if I fly a piston.

I'm being pretty picky about my next job. -Goose

Goose, I took some liberties on your quote, yet agree 100% with what is stated above.

You do have all the time in the world. You have the whole world in front of you. I have a couple of years on you, yet so many others have told me that I have so much time in front of me... so for now I will enjoy every minute of it (although it may be challenging at times).

There are times when I look back at what I did, yeah, I could have regrets at how I chose to pursue this crazy aviation thingy... yet also realize I made the best decisions I could at the time with the info I had at the time.

I also realized so much of it is "right place, right time" yet also know that we have to make our own breaks. I have been very lucky and fortunate to be where I am now, yet a lot has to do with perserverence and attitude.

 

[Almerick07]

hindsight is 20/20...the bottom line is to do what makes you happy. If flying makes you happy do whatver you gotta do to get flying. If real estate makes you happy the same goes for that. Do whatever you want in life that makes you the happiest. You only live once, dont have any regrets.

 

[pilotmiketx]

Thuglife, hang in there. Sometimes it is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel... some things are life are too precious to let go!

Precisely the reason he should hang it up. If you ain't happy, move on. If its not for you, move on. There's 10 people out there who'd bury a hatchet in their mother's forhead for your job. Besides, your attitude is perceived by all of your coworkers and nobody likes working for "that guy."

Of all the guys I used to instruct with, those who sucked it up and paid their dues for low wages and long hours have been successful in this unpredictable volatile industry of ours. The common factors among them are that they LOVE TO FLY and they PERSEVERED. The guys who whined and had crappy attitudes are bartending, back in school (law, grad, med, massage) and/or living with mom.

The same is true for folks stuck in crappy dead-end jobs whose dream is to fly. If you ain't happy, hang it up and walk away from the fat paycheck, bonuses and stock options and make the jump. I did and I haven't looked back since.

 

[THUGLIFE]

If the airlines were really smart they would put interviews up for sale on ebay. It would be interesting to see how much they could get.
Americk07 well said.