This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!

[Regul8r]

While I am still building my time to get a flying job I have got to ask: does it wear thin after a while? It seems like when I speak to my friends, who graduated from XYZ Aviation College, they are looking ancy to move somewhere else i.e. another airline for better pay, better schedule, better equipment, etc. Does it eventually turn into a "chasing your tail" scenario? I can't comprehend it because like I said, never worked there before. Call me crazy, but I don't want to go look at CRTs when flying. I'd be content with the ole' six pack and other steam gauges. I will admit, before I even have a job, my rose colored glasses are on and I KNOW it's going to be paradise to fly for a living...

 

[typhoonpilot]

THUGLIFE:

You may want to get out of this industry because to succeed you need to have a variety of factors on your side. One of them is a good attitude and another is the willingness to move for the right job. Other factors would be: decent flying skills, a good ability to network, and a little luck. Aviation is a very small industry and I have found that networking and having a good attitude are invaluable. Once those factors get you the interview you then need to display some technical competence and again, a good attitude. Maybe your rant doesn't depict you, maybe it is temporary. Obviously you did something right to get to a regional, but if you are young and already displaying the attitude of your post, you won't get much further.

This career isn't easy. I've moved 10 times since 1988, and I'm not talking about small moves. Two have been cross country and two have been overseas. For me it has paid off; I was 23 when I first upgraded at a regional, 24 when hired by a major (later furloughed and unemployed for a year), 28 when I made captain on the DC-9, and 39 when I made captain on the 777. I haven't made less than $100,000 per year since 1995.

Some lucky few get to stay with a good company or airline from when they are young to when they retire, but that really only makes up about 5% of the people who get into this business. The rest of us have to network, display a good attitude, and be competent pilots to succeed. All of my friends in this industry are successful. They have all had to work hard at it and all had to make moves to go to the right job. It hasn't been easy for most, but if you have the desire to do it, it is possible to succeed.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Tram]

Great post Typhoonpilot...

 

[banned username 2]

Those were the days!!!! And that included Bob Chinns on the IFR days

Amen Brother! We need to find old T.B. and have him take us to Bob Chinn's, or at least give us his credit card number!

Cat3C and I CFI'ed together, and have followed VERY similar career paths at different companies... and have both ended up in nearly identical positions... It all comes down to what you want and what you are willing to work for...

 

[THUGLIFE]

Amerilick7, Instant gratification? Your crazy man. I’m just looking for a livable wage.... Don’t you think I have put in dues yet? 5 years of eating ramen and sleeping on couches to hope for 30k a year. I’m 30 years old, the last six years of my live have been devoted to getting this job. I worked for this company for six months for free. I cant afford a 100k condo, and I have 700+ fica! I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me, many have it much worse, but what I do want others to see a different perspective before investing 70k on flight lessons.
Don’t sell yourself short, is because of people like you that we make 20 dollars an hour to fly an Rj. Duty time figured, in your making 12 dollars and hour to fly a 20 million $ jet. I’m no sjs kid, I just wanted to complete the goal I sacrificed so much for.
Moving on.

 

[aeronautic1]

What a bunch of whiney little fokkers.

 

[mayday1]

I’m just looking for a livable wage.... Don’t you think I have put in dues yet? 5 years of eating ramen and sleeping on couches to hope for 30k a year. I’m 30 years old, the last six years of my live have been devoted to getting this job. I worked for this company for six months for free.

supply and demand my friend... why should the airlines pay more when they can have a long line of qualified applicants to fill FO slots at $18k/yr.?

Don’t sell yourself short, is because of people like you that we make 20 dollars an hour to fly an Rj. Duty time figured, in your making 12 dollars and hour to fly a 20 million $ jet. I’m no sjs kid, I just wanted to complete the goal I sacrificed so much for.
Moving on.

What? How did you get there? As long as you continue to fly for those wages, you're validating management's price point on pilot wages. It gets tiring hearing pilots complain about their poor wages at the regionals... I for one, chose not to pursue an airline career because I could not bear the thought of working my a$$ off for below poverty level wages. Now, if the throngs of qualified pilots out there who line up for these $hit wages would do the same, things might change. But until then, supply and demand, the most fundamental economic principle will govern pilot salaries.

 

[THUGLIFE]

Typhoonpilot, thanks for the post, and congratulations on your sucess and determination. You give us some hope.

 

[fussle]

I don't think aiming for the airlines is such a bad idea...if you're smart about it. (I relatives who have gone to Comair and some who are captains for United). If you go to some $75,000 part 141 school to get your ratings, then you may regret when you get less than what you expect with a heap of debt surrounding you. One of the downfalls to doing it this way is that you are left without a college degree, so your future absolutely rides on how the airline industry performs. In other words...you're stuck! Let's say that you make it to an airline as captain, and that airline goes broke/you get furloughed. Then you can't just go to another airline as captain making the same money. You start all the way at the bottom again if you even find another flying job. What I would recommend doing is getting all your ratings on the side, while going to school/work, at a part 61 school. Believe it or not, the airlines don't care where you got your training from, but how much experience you have. I have gotten all of my ratings (Private-CFII) at a part 61 school for around $25,000. Now I am instructing at a part 61 school, while in college full-time working towards my degree. My point is, if flying doesn't work out, then I have something to fall back on (besides aviation), and I don't have to rely on the airlines. I won't be stuck! Just advice for people thinking about getting into the airlines.

 

[NYCPilot]

The simple solution is to leave your job. Open a position up for someone who isn't going to complain. And if they aren't satisfied, they'll leave and give someone else the opportunity.

The trend it seems is that a lot of careers will top off at the regional level and at some places the high-end of the salary isn't too bad for some. In time, the QOL will improve. Presently the regionals are experiencing some growing pains with the jet transitions and reorganization of the majors. Eventually regionals will account for a more substantial amount of the flying as they increase in size. Once stabilization occurs, pay and QOL will slowly become more comfortable. This may take a good 10 years but it will occur. The dynamics of air travel in the last 5-10 years has changed quite a bit in many different ways.

There are many pilots who don't mind the low pay since it beats having to work for a living. Obviously the first few years will be tough, but eventually you will have a salary that is very liveable, especially if you have a dual income household. I don't believe that it will ever return to the historical levels of the past, but it is what it is.

 

[Regul8r]

Once stabilization occurs, pay and QOL will slowly become more comfortable. This may take a good 10 years but it will occur.

NYC Pilot, what will bring around stabilization? Pay and QOL will become more comfortable relative to what, living conditions in 3rd world countries? I don't see these improving with the current Corporate Raiders running the management teams at airlines [Southewest being an exception]. The airlines are in a race to the bottom right now with eachother and the two biggest ways to reduce operating costs are to either layoff's or paycuts. It looks to me like new talent is needed on the BOD's before anything gets better.

 

[avbug]

Don’t you think I have put in dues yet? 5 years of eating ramen and sleeping on couches to hope for 30k a year. I’m 30 years old, the last six years of my live have been devoted to getting this job.

I don't think you've put in your dues yet. I don't think you have the remotest concept of what it means to pay your dues. You sound like an arrogant spoiled kid who is just now opening his eyes for the first time, but thinks he knows it all.

I also don't think you have what it takes to survive in this industry, else you wouldn't quit.

I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me, ... I just wanted to complete the goal I sacrificed so much for.
Moving on.

Yes, you do want sympathy, and no, you haven't begun to sacrifice. You've simply started a path that you're not willing to finish. Apparently in ignorance of the obvious; pilots are a dime a dozen, few worth their weight in old salt.

I find it incomprehensible that someone would make the "sacrifices" that you claim, if they could be called as much, without so much as taking the time to enquire among professionals who have experience in the industry to learn it's true nature. That it comes as a surprise to you at this stage in the game is no slight on the industry, but an embarassment to you that you should come this far with your eyes closed. That you should quit is an embarassment to you for your lack of commitment.

You should be aware that for those who do stay with it, flying is worth the effort, and the career a rewarding one. Before you quit, at least you should know what it is that you're giving up.

Yes, it can be tough. But you didn't come this far to merely walk away, did you? You did not. Get back on the horse and ride. Your career isn't over, yet.

 

[Almerick07]

read above for rebuttle, nicely said avbug. No offense thuggie but 1200 hours in 6 years (assuming youve updated).....no wonder youve been living on couches. You must be one motivated person, you gotta fly to get paid bud. $70k in training either youre one slow learner or you got suckered by some fancy ads, if the fancy ads are the case no wonder you were so misinformed about this profession. I hope to goodness youre still on probationary pay making 19k a year, if youre not chances are you arent flying for a good company. I'm sorry youre 30 and still making crap pay, but dues are dues no matter how old you are....and the slower you pay your dues the longer they take. Why dont you do us a favor and stop complaining and do something about it, weather it be get your real estate license or find a better flying job. Your plight doesnt impress me, sorry.

 

[FreightNazi]

To all working towards an airline. Stop right now and look for a new career. Don’t listen to the hype of your flight school! They just want your money. I’m so sick of this #$#@!!!!!! No pay for two months, when I do get my check I have deductions for my &%^$& uniform!!!!!!!!!!!!!. My two days off reserve, I spend traveling, Just to get home for a few hours!!!!!!!!!!. Then it starts all over. It never ends or pays off. You will be stuck at a regional for the rest of your career, making the same pay as ups truck driver. That’s the reality. I’m not trying to be negative, just to let you know this sucks. I wish I had really known what this was all about long ago, I wasted so much time and money!!!! Yeah we all love flying but when you can't afford to pay your meager bills and qualify for food stamps, you really begin to wonder. *#&# I cant even afford to pay rent!!!!!!!!!!!

Well got to go work on my real-estate license, to try to dig myself out of this hole. Normally I would not write something like this, but I’m so discouraged and fed up with this industry. Good luck......

Actually our drivers make much more that most regional pilots.

 

[siucavflight]

The industry is not too bad for those that have been in it for a long time. For new guys I would advise to get the hell out while you still can. I am lucky enough to not really care how much money I make, if I had to worry I would choose a very, very different career, one that is in no way related to aviation.