This Months "ProPilot"

[501261]

Isn't Arnie (I always call him 'Arnie' ... we're pretty tight.) typed in the Citation X? I thought I saw something on TV once about him getting one of the first 750s Cessna sold, and about him flying it with a co-Captain. But then again ... I used to drink alot before I found Jesus (pronounced 'hey-soos').

Minh "Hacker" Thong

Yes, Mr. Palmer (I don't know him that well ), is typed in the C750, he's actually quite an accomplished pilot, for being an owner-operator.

For the record Mr. Palmer only has a Private, Multi, Instrument, but he is typed on the LRJET, IA JET, C500, C650, and C750. He has over 20,000 flight hours, goes to FS every year, and once held a world record speed for flying around the world in a business jet (in 1975 he flew a Lear 35 around the world in something like 36 hours).

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I believe the Gulfstream job for a golfer that many are refering to is for Jack Nichalas (sp?)

Word is that its about as crappy a job as they come, loaded with the typical stuff...low wages, obscene hours, understaffed, multiple "job titles" (maybe you can wash his car?, cook his dinner?)....

but again I stress this is all second hand knowledge, I could be 100% wrong. but doubt it....

 

[CXAV8]

AP

I've heard AP is a great guy-I don't question this. But???
20,000 hrs.- yeah right. And I'm a 2 handicap!!!

 

[banned username 2]

Re: AP

I've heard AP is a great guy-I don't question this. But???
20,000 hrs.- yeah right. And I'm a 2 handicap!!!

I agree... I fly full time, and at the rate I am going, I will break 20,000 hours just before I turn 60 (in 25 years from now)

I doubt AP has anywhere near 20,000 hours... Maybe they meant 2,000 hours.

 

[501261]

Re: Re: AP

I agree... I fly full time, and at the rate I am going, I will break 20,000 hours just before I turn 60 (in 25 years from now)

I doubt AP has anywhere near 20,000 hours... Maybe they meant 2,000 hours.

No, he really does have 20,000 hours. Certainly I can't verify this, but it is what he says and I tend to believe him. Remember AP is 74 years old and has been flying since 1961! He says he averages about 700 hours a year! I would tend to believe it since his first C750 sold last year with 3000 hours on it. Cessna (especially Textron Pres Russ Meyer ) and AP have a long history together. AP was the launch customer of the Citation III, VII and X. He got C750 serial number 3 in new 1996 and sold it in 2001. It had 3000+ hours on it when he sold it. So 20,000 is probably close to the truth.

 

[puddlejumper]

Arnold Palmer Article

There was a little article on Arnold Palmer in a very recent issue of one of those airplane sales magazines. I think it was World Aviaition Sales or something like that. The article mentioned the around the world record and that AP has over 20,000 hrs in his logbook. I just thought I'd share. BTW, I haven't had a chance to read this month's pro-pilot. I just got it yesterday. Maybe I'll bring it with to SAV tomorrow and get caught up!

-PJ

 

[banned username 2]

Re: Re: Re: AP

No, he really does have 20,000 hours. Certainly I can't verify this, but it is what he says and I tend to believe him. Remember AP is 74 years old and has been flying since 1961!

...So 20,000 is probably close to the truth.

I didn't realize AP was that old... I don't follow golf, but for some reason thought he was in his mid 50's... I guess 20,000 is in the realm of possiblity given his age and how long he's been flying!

I retract my former statement.

 

[rice]

I thought following, playing, living, breathing GOLF, was a pre-requisite in your neck of the woods.

 

[metrodriver]

Yeah, it might have been Jack Nicklaus. The feature was done several years ago.
I don't keep up with guys trying to beat a little white ball into submission with a long stick( doesn't matter if it's golf or baseball), very sleep inducing.

 

[2000flyer]

I believe the Gulfstream job for a golfer that many are refering to is for Jack Nichalas (sp?)

Word is that its about as crappy a job as they come, loaded with the typical stuff...low wages, obscene hours, understaffed, multiple "job titles" (maybe you can wash his car?, cook his dinner?)....

but again I stress this is all second hand knowledge, I could be 100% wrong. but doubt it....

I've met JN's chief pilot on several occassions and the guy really does seem to enjoy his job. Yes, a lot of weekends, RONs etc, but to each our own, right?


Back to the original intent of this thread, the Lear job in ProPilot, did I just completely misread this and understand that his pilots (other than the CP) are contract pilots?????

I quote from the article:
"UPI pilots are paid slightly above industry average and work as independent contractors undencumbered by health coverage, 401(k) plans, profit sharing or disability..."

What in the he** is this guy talking about? Unencumbered by benefits? I about fell off my chair when I read this. We are in the 21st century, right?

Where in the heck do I send my resume? What a joke!

I normally try to remain positive in my posts but this joker really made me laugh!

2000Flyer
(currently, thankfully, encumbered by benefits!)

 

[bravo]

It is always interesting to read about the featured Flight Departments. They always seem to be the ideal flying job. The one thing that caught my eye, which I have not seen before is under Pilot Lifestyles.

UPI pilots are paid slightly above industry average, and then it goes on to say they work as independent contractors unencumbered by health coverage , 401K, etc. I have never heard of that one before with a Corp. flight dept. They must be flying as contract pilots and getting paid by the day. No wonder they sleep in the airplane. Probably no coverage for expenses. Brown bag it to boot.

 

[AV8OR]

Hey guys. I got a question for ya. If the issue was this months, any chance this was an "April Fools" joke by the Pro-pilot folks? Years ago SI did something like that. I was just wondering. Anybody out there able to confirm or deny they know this dept actually exists? It all sounds too absurd.

Adios

 

[2000flyer]

Hey guys. I got a question for ya. If the issue was this months, any chance this was an "April Fools" joke by the Pro-pilot folks? Years ago SI did something like that. I was just wondering. Anybody out there able to confirm or deny they know this dept actually exists? It all sounds too absurd.

Adios

AV8OR,

You may be onto something here, however, I'd like to think the magazine would put some sort of disclaimer somewhere that this was a joke.

However, a quick search of the FAA shows the following:

N333KC (the LR35) pictured in the article, is registered to "Enchantment Airways LLC, Santa Fe NM". A name search of the FAA to see what their registration numbers are showed "Univeral Pacific Management" as having only a reserved number with a corporate street address in Oklahoma City.

So, who knows? Maybe we have all just had our chains yanked. Makes you wonder what other article were fantasy in that issue!

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[Gulfstream 200]

No its not a joke. Sounds like a joke, but its not.

Sure these jobs are out there, sometimes taking them is what it takes to move up to "better" jobs....

My whole beef was that this is the feature article in "professional" pilot. If I was an aspiring pilot thinking about corporate instead of airlines this would turn me away SO fast...I just think they should promote good corporate opportunites...not paint a rosey picture, but dont promote slavery...

Oh well, look forward to the next month of lies I guess

 

[AV8OR]

Well, that's too bad. I was hoping maybe it would be a little mirth for the masses. But, I guess it wasn't. I'm not sure how they could get a real story though.

You know the way they must do their research is to ask the CP how they run the dept, how the pay and work rules are, and how everybody likes it. What's he gonna say? If they ask the pilots, they're toast.

It seems like a way to legitimize the articles would be to do articles on dept that have a long standing history of both current and former employees who can give an account of their experience and then follow up with an article on the dept. Otherwise, I just don't see how you can corroborate the story without someone getting fired.

Sometimes tough being a "Professional Pilot".

 

[GVFlyer]

There are some weird ones out there. I applied for an upscale clothingstore chain based in Seattle once years ago, pay was low and if you were not flying you had to help with building maintenance. Turned out the pilots were cutting the grass, cleaning restrooms... I also read an article about the flight ops from I believe Arnold Palmer. One of those old famous golfers who designs a lot of courses. Pilots had maybe 20 days off a year, had to cook for him, even at the layovers. They flew a G4, and were thinking about something bigger. These guys flew a lot!

Arnold is a flack for Cessna.

Ron Hurst is the Chief Pilot for Jack Nicklaus. They operate a G-III and love their job. They get to play great courses all over the world. If you were a surfer it would be kinda like living in a Bruce Brown flick.

Greg Norman operates a GV and Guy, their chief pilot, runs a very professional international operation.

GV

 

[flywithruss]

This one surprised me too. "Unencumbered" by benefits, sleep in the Lear ... no thanks. I also loved how you have to "call in" to the home office to leave town for a few hours. I think I'll quit complaining about my work rules from now on ...

R

 

[Roadie]

See its articles like that, why I let my subscription to ProPilot expire two years ago! I disliked the articles so much that, even though it was a FREE subscription, I got rid of it. And I’m sure those pilots in the aforementioned article are paid above industry standard, if you consider the industry standard that joke of a salary survey they put out.

Same thing with Flying magazine, I haven't read one of them in over 5 years. I just got sick of reading how great of a pilot Dick Collins is.

The two aviation rags that I still get and enjoy reading are B/CA's and AIN.

Pro Pilot has been showcasing these fantastic flight departments for years and for the life of me, I can't figure out why the principals involved would even want to admit operating so unprofessionally.

I remember a feature they did on one "department" in the far east which operated a Falcon 50, 24/7, literally from the trunk of a car.

 

[Heavy Set]

I enjoy reading the flight department articles - but this one was just too rosy for the cheap owner... Fly across the Atlantic and then sleep in the airplane? Why not spend 1/4 the amount on a Concorde ticket (at least for the next 6 months)? Sounds like a wealthy guy who is a cheap ba$tard.... No benefits for his pilots? I don't care how great the skiing is at Tahoe - that sounds like a crap position unless you are really LOOOOOOOOOOOOOW on hours and you have cash saved up....


Could Clay Lacy's aircraft demo articles be any more formulaic? They sound like press releases - never anything negative. Clay is a scab too having walked the line at United years ago... I am not a big fan.

 

[Gumby]

Pro Pilot article...

Well all you guys got me excited to come home after a 5 day trip, and rip into my Pro-Pilot, and figured it couldnt be that bad? HOLY COW!! The story just compels you to read further into it, and my jaw just continued to drop. Let's see, would I rather hover over competing ski resorts in marginal wx, or fly across the pond in a 35/55, and sleep in the back in my "big berthable seat"? It's a tough call for sure. This guy looks like more of a jackass, the more his mouth opens up!!! The Chief pilots' nick name is "Dub"? Is he missing a "M" in there somewhere?

The boss wants' to help develope the "Lear 35 of the future"...Oh Please, and what, come up w/ Aerial refueling? Does his definintion of an "augmented" crew mean two company men, and a p/t sucker?

It goes on to say that the boss "Bill, will reward you based on merit", If you do a good job and you're innovative, he'll look after you very well". Ok, and his definition of "innovative" is what? Helping out at the FBO@LFPB, during the 3 hour sit???

This is a disaster in the making....OK I'm done..Nite-Nite...

Ok, maybe not...The Lear N#'s check out on the FAA database, but out of the three pilots, only one has an ATP.