This is why the last payrates offered by NJA were "insulting."

[gunfyter]

Letters are composed by the Union Busting firm...

 

[TheTruthCMH]

yeah the cp's don't put anything out. I was trying to make an apples to apples comparison. The letters come from the DO and CEO.

I disagree once again, I don't believe the DO puts out anything other than operational emails (once again, from what I've heard and seen myself)... You sure you work for the same company?

 

[Diesel]

jesus christ man the DO puts out his own wacky emails that are insulting enough on their own.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

jesus christ man the DO puts out his own wacky emails that are insulting enough on their own.

Yes, you rang?

Ok, I'll give you that but I don't think he puts out anything but operational emails, no propaganda. Everyone in the flight center gets a copy of most of his emails because they affect many different departments.

 

[gunfyter]

If you get sick in the Flight center do you need to bring in a note from Epstein's mother to go back to work?

 

[Diesel]

Dude it's the same thing. Union busting or not they are the same type of emails that wouldn't fly in a corp department.

Read my above, above, above post about a corp department has a different feeling to nj

 

[TheTruthCMH]

If you get sick in the Flight center do you need to bring in a note from Epstein's mother to go back to work?

Nah, we just wait until we arrive at work to DNIF, then some other poor sap has to pick up our slack and work twice as hard. Hmm, that sounds familiar...

 

[TheTruthCMH]

I completely agree but what CP operates a flight department like this one? A cp in a small flight department is usually upfront and deals with questions and rumors head on. They don't send out propoganda and try to turn the other people in the flight department against the pilots. That's what we are dealing with. That's why you hear what you hear in the FBO's.

Trust me when i put my other hat on in my other job it's a completely different feeling. I'm part of the team. I'm working hard at making sure that the department is a success. (look at my agonizing posts regard wxxm, I'm trying to do what's right for the airplane).

Ok, I will quote your entire post. I still disagree and say that your CP/DO do not send out PROPAGANDA TO TRY AND TURN THE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE FLIGHT DEPARTMENT AGAINST THE PILOTS. I believe the emails you are referring to come from HIGHER THAN THE DO.

Is that loud enough for you?

 

[Diesel]

You don't need to shout. Nobody listens anyway.

I've allways wondered why people keep saying someone else has to pick up the slack. It just doesn't make sense. When I go on the road i get scheduled for a 14hr day. It happens every day maybe 13 maybe 14 but it still happens every day.

So a plane breaks what are they going to do schedule me for 15hrs? Where is this extra work they are going to pile on me? It's not like they can schedule me to stay after hours. 14 is it. So when upstairs is saying other people have to pick up the slack... I ask where? My day is allready full. You can't add anything more. Sure you can change my day but you can't add to it.

I do agree though it is not the CP's that send out crap. That does come from much higher.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

You don't need to shout. Nobody listens anyway.

I've allways wondered why people keep saying someone else has to pick up the slack. It just doesn't make sense. When I go on the road i get scheduled for a 14hr day. It happens every day maybe 13 maybe 14 but it still happens every day.

So a plane breaks what are they going to do schedule me for 15hrs? Where is this extra work they are going to pile on me? It's not like they can schedule me to stay after hours. 14 is it. So when upstairs is saying other people have to pick up the slack... I ask where? My day is allready full. You can't add anything more. Sure you can change my day but you can't add to it.

I do agree though it is not the CP's that send out crap. That does come from much higher.

Seems you are listening (actually reading) or you wouldn't have responded.

Let's say we have three crews scheduled to work eight hour days and two crews scheduled to work 14. One of those crews DNIF's/Fatigue's/plane breaks, now one of the remaining four crews (possibly more) has to pick up the flight(s) (obviously coming from one of the eight hour crews). They were scheduled to only have four legs and an eight hour work day, now they have six legs and their day will bump up against 14 (not over, they won't do it). Now the remaining two crews will likely be held on duty a little longer because we have less planes and crews available to cover anything else that may break/fatigue/DNIF down the road. This last scenario is truly what plays out on a daily basis as of late. It is also not uncommon for someone on their first day that has to drive several hours to their gateway, to call in fatigued before ever doing any work...

When push comes to shove, these planes come from all over the NJA fleet to cover flights. While most of the Excel's are scheduled to long duty days, some of the other fleets aren't because they just don't have as much work to do. Now they will be kept on to cover the above flights I mentioned. There will also be some crews only scheduled for standby to give the company some flexibility if a plane breaks/crew DNIF's/fatigues. Now those crews will swing into action and likely end up with a full day when they were only scheduled for standby previously.

I am not saying it is good or bad, just telling it like I see it.

 

[Diesel]

QUOTE] It is also not uncommon for someone on their first day that has to drive several hours to their gateway, to call in fatigued before ever doing any work...[/QUOTE]

uummm gotta love the spin from the company. This was allready settled with the company and the union. But the truth will never tell you that part.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

QUOTE] It is also not uncommon for someone on their first day that has to drive several hours to their gateway, to call in fatigued before ever doing any work..

uummm gotta love the spin from the company. This was allready settled with the company and the union. But the truth will never tell you that part.

How is this spin when it still occurs?

Don't hate me because I tell the TRUTH. Hate the game, don't hate the players.

 

[On Your Six]

How is this spin when it still occurs?

Don't hate me because I tell the TRUTH. Hate the game, don't hate the players.

The TRUTH is that Five-year Citation X Captains should not be earning $55-60K per year. Falcon 2000 FOs should not be earning $33K per year. NJA views its pilots purely as commodities and not as team players. The truth is that NJA will be a great place to be FROM...

 

[NJAowner]

On Your Six -- this may sound like a blend of both positions.

It is called supply and demand. As long as pilots accept those jobs at $33K, they are also viewing themselves "purely as commodities". It will take both the pilots (all pilots not just the pilots currently flying for NJA) and NJA to resolve this one.

Fly safe.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

The TRUTH is that Five-year Citation X Captains should not be earning $55-60K per year. Falcon 2000 FOs should not be earning $33K per year. NJA views its pilots purely as commodities and not as team players. The truth is that NJA will be a great place to be FROM...

The TRUTH is that you are correct. I don't disagree with you that Citation X/Falcon 2000 pilots (only using them as an example because On your Six mentioned only those two groups) at NJA should be paid more. If you go back through all of my posts I have never denied that the pay should be adjusted, I just don't agree with the manner that some are going about trying to make their points. I don't think STFD is doing ANYONE any good, especially the owners, our bread and butter for those that forget.

I will ask you the same question I have posted at least twice now (without a response). How do you respond in the interview at company Z when they say "so, are you one of the STFD guys I read about on Flightinfo.com?" There are those that will come back and tell me that guys are leaving and haven't been asked that question yet, but we haven't STFD'd NJA yet... So, if (hopefully it won't) it ever came to that, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when that question is asked.

 

[gunfyter]

Truth

Why don't you ask the hiring committee at NJA what they said when they hired the same exact people who ran the Strikes at UAL and other airlines.

Did NJA not ask those questions?

 

[TheTruthCMH]

Truth

Why don't you ask the hiring committee at NJA what they said when they hired the same exact people who ran the Strikes at UAL and other airlines.

Did NJA not ask those questions?

That is a very good point gunfyter and I would hope those that hire here at NJA would have considered it while doing their interviews. It seems pretty obvious that NJA ended up hiring a few of them. But should NJA get STFD'd, this would certainly be a tough question to answer. As some have pointed out on these boards that aren't employed by NJA, they don't want anything to do with these types of people. Some have already left for bigger and better, but if this place gets shut down those pilots left will face this question ("so, are you one of the STFD pilot's?).

Nice wreath by the way, are you implying anything? Just more of those subliminal messages huh?

 

[rider12]

Good point CMH. These STFD guys also should remember that the aviation community is very small. Like the old saying, " your co-pilot may one day become your chief pilot.
If your flying with an STFD guy, who is just completely anti-company and eventually he gets his way, we all end up on the street, he may have a difficult time trying to find a good job. Good guys will go to good company's and eventually work their way up the ladders where they have to answer to top management about their flight ops. So an x STFD guy you flew with at NJA comes to you, as a chief pilot, looking for a job. How would ANYONE handle that situation?? ARE YOU CRAZY DUDE!! SEE YA!!

 

[CapnVegetto]

I forget who wrote it on this board, but it's great advice:

"Never work for a company that makes its money flying airplanes."

 

[Some guy]

I forget who wrote it on this board, but it's great advice:

"Never work for a company that makes its money flying airplanes."

That's a good quote, however it doesn't really apply to this sitaution. NJA does not make money.

How's about 'Never work for a company that doesn't make money flying airplanes'?

SG