This is why the last payrates offered by NJA were "insulting."

[h25b]

Additionally, a lot of the pilots were hired after they were furloughed from various airlines or after they retired - I know a few UAL guys who went over to NJA because there weren't a lot of options at the time for high-time pilots. However, now that hiring has increased at Jet Blue, AirTran, SWA, Continental, etc., you will see these experienced pilots leaving. The furloughed pilots will jump ship because NJA is not a compelling place to be any longer. Why would someone want to stay at NJA if the level of disrespect for the pilot group was this transparent?

If these guys/gals fell for the old carrot-on-a-stick routine by RTS, SHAME ON THEM. Idiot move by anyone's standards...

You act like there's not already droves lined up for spots at those airlines. And for your education: (1) SWA requires a type and last I heard has slowed/stopped interviewing, (2) JetBlue will be hiring mostly in to the EMB-190 for crap pay, (3) Airtran I think has a FAR 121 PIC minimum, (4) take a look at first year Continental pay... No "highly experienced" NJA pilot with a family to support could take that pay cut... I'd like to know what planet you're in orbit around thinking these guys can just go jump ship somewhere else... IF THEY COULD COMMON SENSE DICTATES THEY WOULD HAVE ALREADY !!!!!!!!! Gee whiz, haven't you heard it's easier to find a job when you've got one.

You're acting like they can just set fire to the place and walk across the street to find a job. Your poking them along down this self-destructive path and telling them everything's going to be just fine is doing no great service to anyone. Reminds me when I was in fifth grade and all of my friends kept telling my I could kick Brian's a$$, then I promptly got my a$$ handed to me. It took a bloody nose/black eye, but hey at least I learned not to listen to other people when it's my a$$ that could get kicked... I guess some people just need a good a$$ whip'n for a lesson learned...

But hey, if the majority of NJA pilots want their whip'n they can roll the dice and see what happens. Rest assured Warren Buffett will be their "Brian."

 

[Just Peachy]

No Future.....

Its good that you are in the minority wgfp48.... clearly the rest of the union doesnt think like you. When the company hired me 4 years ago, the mantra from the company AND the union was, "Look, we know the pay is low, and we are working on getting it changed to industry standards." and I believed it.......

So now the compay is crying, " we cant afford to pay industry standards." Well no sh*t brother. After taking all the profits and spending them on all the other divisions, its no wonder.

When a company sends out memos stating " no recording of conversations with anyone at CMH, and claims to open its books to the union but will NOT allow a forensic search to see where all the money went." Just how much trust will you give those managers? I wont even get into flight operations in which it would of been illegal to take the dispatched flt..... we have to make and keep copys of logs, write ups and memos cuz the company denies they ever said, requested, or did that....

Can you spell Enron???

 

[wolfpackpilot]

From my perspective, there is no logical rationale for the NJI situation given the NJE precedent.

Heres One... The IBT

Sure, NJA pilots could have protested back in 96, but I doubt they had the size or confidence to oppose it at the time

As my mom would tell me when I was little... "Coulda, shoulda, didn't". (I hated when she said that).

NJE complicates the entire situation. The precedent has already been set by NJE - it operates all aircraft including the Gulfstreams

Invalid argument, NJI was created well before NJE came along. (ie Boeing should have built the 747 before the 707 as the 747 was a far superior aircraft)

The branding is the same

I disagree. The Falcon, Gulfstreams, and BBJ do give the same level of service. But two 28 year old ultra pilots wearing Sketchers or Doc Martins, shirts hanging out of their pants, wearing lanyards with Teamster pins all over them, complaining to the owners about how crappy NetJets is treating them is not the same experience my owners receive.

However, there is no logical reason to keep the operations separate

Do you know everything that Management plans? What if NJI is being sold as we speak. Or perhaps NetJets wants the ability to sell NJI off in a moments notice.

Having spoken with a number of NJE pilots at Luton and Lisbon recently, unionization may become a reality in Europe too because they are not happy over there either.

Yet another delusional approach which unions so desperately feed upon. If you ain't happy, get unionized, we'll make those b*stards pay.

Look, I honestly appreciate your rational view of the situation, and furthermore I applaud you for keeping your opinions civil, that speaks volume for your character. But NJI will never be merged with NJA, it just isn't going to happen. NJA pilots need to focus on improvements that are attainable and stop worrying about 230 "old farts" with reading glasses.

 

[Diesel]

I disagree. The Falcon, Gulfstreams, and BBJ do give the same level of service. But two 28 year old ultra pilots wearing Sketchers or Doc Martins, shirts hanging out of their pants, wearing lanyards with Teamster pins all over them, complaining to the owners about how crappy NetJets is treating them is not the same experience my owners receive.

Yeah this isn't a regional and i've never seen that. I have seen gulfstream guys that haven't missed a meal in their lives, coke bottles for glasses and walking across the ramp makes them look like they are going to have a heart attack.

Look i can play the game too.

 

[h25b]

Yeah this isn't a regional and i've never seen that. I have seen gulfstream guys that haven't missed a meal in their lives, coke bottles for glasses and walking across the ramp makes them look like they are going to have a heart attack.

Look i can play the game too.

Agreed...

I have to side with Wolfpack though on the sitting around complaining issue though. I see that frequently. Maybe somewhat understandable, but they are going to make it difficult for those hoping to jump ship to corporate. It's making an impression on the Chief Pilots who sit in the corner quietly taking it all in, making mental notes not to ever let one of those whiners in the door. Wish I had a nickel for every time I've sat in a pilot's lounge talking to a nice fellow to find out at the end of the conversation he's C.P./Director for XYZ Corp.

The last thing in the world one of these guys wants to do is bring in some union hard head rockin the boat. Keep your fight out of the F.B.O. pilot's lounges.

 

[Diesel]

That's fine you can side on the complaining issue. There are 2200 of us that have been trapped in this limbo. We are at every fbo, every hotel, every crew van. We are everywhere and when you go from one fbo to another it's the same thing. I notice it when I'm flying the king air.

But what do you do? There are so many of us that it's bound to come up. It's how information gets out there. It's a shame that a CP for one company or another can take the pilot group as a whole and judge them instead of looking at the individual. But that's life and you can't change perceptions.

This isn't a charter or corp dept that has only a couple of guys. 2200 of us walking around the first thing you're going to ask is, "what is the latest".

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[h25b]

I can agree that it's probably unavoidable. But it's not the "what's the latest" that's the problem. I could tell you about the group I overheard the other day and there's no C.P. I can imagine that would want that mentality in their department...

 

[Diesel]

I completely agree but what CP operates a flight department like this one? A cp in a small flight department is usually upfront and deals with questions and rumors head on. They don't send out propoganda and try to turn the other people in the flight department against the pilots. That's what we are dealing with. That's why you hear what you hear in the FBO's.

Trust me when i put my other hat on in my other job it's a completely different feeling. I'm part of the team. I'm working hard at making sure that the department is a success. (look at my agonizing posts regard wxxm, I'm trying to do what's right for the airplane).

 

[TheTruthCMH]

I completely agree but what CP operates a flight department like this one? A cp in a small flight department is usually upfront and deals with questions and rumors head on. They don't send out propoganda and try to turn the other people in the flight department against the pilots. That's what we are dealing with. That's why you hear what you hear in the FBO's.

I've seen most of the emails put out and I don't believe (could be wrong) that any of the CP's at NJA put out any propaganda. I think most of the emails you are referring to Diesel came out from above the DO...

 

[Diesel]

yeah the cp's don't put anything out. I was trying to make an apples to apples comparison. The letters come from the DO and CEO.