There is no pilot shortage! Sorry. By the way Santa Claus isn't real either.

[DCAA320]

The cost? I think he's mentioned that already...

He said so common and available. So if that's the case, cost isn't a factor.

 

[jonjuan]

He said so common and available. So if that's the case, cost isn't a factor.

Yup. Thread closed.

 

[pilotyip]

Yup. Thread closed.

Are you kidding me? This subject will never be closed. My problem is with the term "college degree" is that it is meaningless. By itself it means nothing. GPA without the context of source and course content is meaningless. I got a 3.95 in my Masters program, it was so much simpler than my first two years of Mechanical Engineering with math, physics, and chemistry at Mich State that there is no comparison. College is only one form of post secondary continuing education. All post secondary education is a useless investment of time and money if it does not lead to a decent paying job upon completion. We all know people who tons of student debt and work in jobs only requiring a high school degree, we all know very successful people who do not have college degrees, well at least I do.

There is simply too much emphasis on "you must have College Degree or you are a lower life person"

BTW http://education-routes.net/?a=18953df71b4db274& here is a list of places where you can get life experience "college degrees"

 

[doh]

Yip is right in saying there are far too many worthless courses of study today. It has contributed to a host of problems including tuition inflation and unprepared graduates. That doesn't mean a degree in the right major shouldn't be required, but it does bear consideration.

 

[wms]

ALPA is trying to back-pedal it's lack of advocacy by now saying regional pilots need more money. The point of arguing pay in an obsolete sector of the industry is mute and they know it. They now can say they were fighting for "max pay 'til the last day" without ever having to actually deliver, since the end is inevitable.

It's a scam.

 

[livin'thesim]

It is clear that a lot of people are trying to rationalize their decision to go deeply into debt for college. Lots of debt is fine for a degree that will deliver the big bucks after graduation, but high debt for a worthless degree in some "soft" subject is just a waste of time.

However, a lot of people who spent all this money need to justify it to themselves, so they try to play the "elite, college educated" card. But the evidence of this supposed quality education is often completely lacking. I read plenty of writing by college grads that is middle school level.

I have a college degree, however I paid it off as I went, and was very careful not to overspend. College now is too expensive to pay as you go, you need parent's money or loans/grants. There is almost no other way.

Colleges are basically just financially raping the kids and giving them a diploma that often gives them no demonstrable return on investment.

 

[pilotyip]

It is clear that a lot of people are trying to rationalize their decision to go deeply into debt for college. Lots of debt is fine for a degree that will deliver the big bucks after graduation, but high debt for a worthless degree in some "soft" subject is just a waste of time.

However, a lot of people who spent all this money need to justify it to themselves, so they try to play the "elite, college educated" card. But the evidence of this supposed quality education is often completely lacking. I read plenty of writing by college grads that is middle school level.

I have a college degree, however I paid it off as I went, and was very careful not to overspend. College now is too expensive to pay as you go, you need parent's money or loans/grants. There is almost no other way.

Colleges are basically just financially raping the kids and giving them a diploma that often gives them no demonstrable return on investment.

This guy gets it! Good for you. Investment is post-secondary education must yield a good middle income job. In post-secondary we are not talking strictly college, skilled trades like fixing cars, running Nuclear Power Plants and flying airplanes can lead to a good life.

Repeat, but it fits here. In high schools, the vocational arts have all but vanished. We've elevated the importance of "higher education" to such a lofty perch that all other forms of knowledge are now labeled "alternative." Millions of parents and kids see apprenticeships and on-the-job-training opportunities as "vocational consolation prizes," best suited for those not cut out for a four-year degree. And still, we talk about millions of "shovel ready" jobs for a society that doesn't encourage people to pick up a shovel. In a hundred different ways, we have slowly marginalized an entire category of critical professions, reshaping our expectations of a "good job" into something that no longer looks like work. A few years from now, an hour with a good plumber if you can find one is going to cost more than an hour with a good psychiatrist. At which point we'll all be in need of both. I came here today because guys like my grandfather are no less important to civilized life than they were 50 years ago. Maybe they're in short supply because we don't acknowledge them they way we used to. We leave our check on the kitchen counter, and hope the work gets done. That needs to change.

 

[xjhawk]

There are two problems I will address, even though there are way more we could go on about. First is the inability to default on your student loan debt and the second is the availability of student loans. This caused all the traditional Universities and colleges to steadily increase their tuition and the creation of for profit colleges. IMHO this cheapened the statement " I have a college degree." Having a degree was now as easy as logging onto your computer, cutting and pasting all your assignments and taking your tests next to your second computer with all the answers. The five years after I graduated from a good university the tuition doubled but the pay those degrees produced did not. I was a commercial rated pilot coming out of the Army and could have gotten a regional job in the mid 90's, but I decided to get a four year degree from a good school because I saw that was one of the requirements for a job at many of the majors (or be more competitive). I have since been stuck at a regional airline for 11 years but feel lucky to had only $14k of student debt from my BA. Most of that debt was at 3% and paid for my study abroad experience. Well spent. Flying with pilots making $35k who have $100k in loans makes me sick to my stomach thinking about it. Industry pay cannot support the payments (remember they cannot be defaulted on by law) so therefore new students are not to be found as they know its better to take their talents elsewhere. Bringing validity to the the pilot shortage and the "pay is too low" argument.

 

[waveflyer]

Well one thing we are not doing as a society is keeping education inexpensive.
And that pisses me off-
We don't need granite countertops in apartment style dorms- we need books, teachers and classrooms-
And we don't need public education costs every bit as high as private. As a taxpayer that really makes me angry

 

[Nevets]

Well one thing we are not doing as a society is keeping education inexpensive.
And that pisses me off-
We don't need granite countertops in apartment style dorms- we need books, teachers and classrooms-
And we don't need public education costs every bit as high as private. As a taxpayer that really makes me angry

As a taxpayer, if we keep subsidizing education, the institutions of higher learning will keep increasing the "costs" of an education to meet the ever increasing supply of taxpayer subsidized money.

Anyway, there is no pilot shortage. There is only a shortage of pilots willing to fly for regional compensation. That's the point ALPA has been trying to make.