There Is A Ta!!

[Piedmont DHC-8]

whatever.......you all say

All I am going to say now is this: If you contract carriers didn't exist we wouldn't be having this conversation or these problems. It probably doesn't matter anyway, because in a few months all the wholly owned pilots will be working for the contract carriers after US Assways goes chap 7 and we all get put out on the street.
keep on flamin me I wouldn't expect anything less.

 

[Brother Francis]

Who is John Galt?

Piedmont DHC-8,

When you can correctly answer the question posed above-and there is a correct answer- you will perhaps have a better understanding of the origin of the position in which the U-WO's find themselves.

Perhaps not.

 

[PilotRon]

Re: whatever.......you all say

All I am going to say now is this: If you contract carriers didn't exist we wouldn't be having this conversation or these problems. It probably doesn't matter anyway, because in a few months all the wholly owned pilots will be working for the contract carriers after US Assways goes chap 7 and we all get put out on the street.
keep on flamin me I wouldn't expect anything less.

I don't want to flame you anymore. I just want to know your name so I can let CHQ know not to hire you!

 

[Simon Says]

Will somebody please post the TA.

 

[Piedmont DHC-8]

already applied

I already applied at sh!ttaco and wasn't very impressed. This was about 3 and a half years ago. I think I will apply at some of the better ones

 

[asacap]

To CHQ pilots,

I just finished reading the TA. All I have to say is PLEASE think long and hard about this. You deserve much much much more than this. I know it's better than what you have now, but this will affect your life for the next 7-8 years. At ASA, we signed our contract 5 years ago and have better pay and work rules. Personally, I would vote no.

 

[Buss_Driver]

Let's keep comparisons in context

To CHQ pilots,

I just finished reading the TA. All I have to say is PLEASE think long and hard about this. You deserve much much much more than this. I know it's better than what you have now, but this will affect your life for the next 7-8 years. At ASA, we signed our contract 5 years ago and have better pay and work rules. Personally, I would vote no.

Come on! Can't we stop making unrealistic comparisons?

Keep some perspective. The world economy, the US economy, and the industry are not what they were 5 years ago!

In the face of many other regionals taking concessions (or seriously considering them), our own company offering a negative slide on what was previously voted down (and saying that's the best we'll ever get), and the looming presence of Republic (not going to make any remarks about mesa/freedom but nuff said), our EC has made vast improvements.

I am not claiming it is perfect and I am new enough in this industry not to suggest that I have the answers. But I won't delude myself (or others) into thinking that Comair + anything was possible in these conditions! In 4 years (not 7-8) we will have an ammendable contract (you know, 2007, the peak of retirements) and maybe we'll get the chance to play leapfrog but, until then, let's not fall off the ladder while reaching for the stars!

One final thought: this pilot group has stuck together so far and, I expect, we will try to make a good decision without getting too emotional while fine-tooth-combing the contract. The opinions of outsiders (especially those with experience) is appreciated but please don't try to beat us over the collective head with your views! Please try to keep the comparisons to a minimum and within perspective.

S

 

[asacap]

Buss_Driver,

I certainly meant no offense. I apologize if you think I did. I just think you guys work hard and deserve more. I will vote no on anythin that doesn't beat Comair. Thats just how I feel. Also, a 4 year contract + 2-3 years to renegotiate a new contract is what I meant. I should have said 6-7 years. Goos luck.

 

[Airpiraterob]

so yall think its definite that you CAN get better than Comair?

Check this out. Comair struck in the Spring of '01....way way before 9/11. even if the majors were already starting their spiral down, the business transfer to the regionals from the majors would then have been just like it is today....GOOD for the regional airlines. there was no reason to believe the economy would be crippled like it has been and is now. yes the economy grew lately....but then how much MILITARY money has been spent into the economy? alot...thats why its growing. We'll see what happens once the military stops spending this much.

things aren't comming up roses. To restate whats been said, whats now is now and what was then...just in '01 even....was then. A lesson was learned from the strike...Multiple codeshare partners into the same hubs so a strike wont cripple so badly. they've learned ways around such a strike and it wont have the same effect again. So ask for whatever you want to and see if you can get more than Comair. Comair knows more now.

I really don't believe it will happen in this climate. not with the fuel costs now, not with the reduction in travel now, not with the security/safety costs now. Just those 3 biggies have drasticly changed since comair's championing of the industry. I don't believe it will happen the way yall want it to. When that ammendable comes up in 4 years, and the economy looks better and the 'happier-after-ratified' pilots have shown great results....then theres big hope for more. We could even get it then too. CHQ is growing. were not the biggest but we're on the way and this is one of the steps there....called 'blocks of learning'. We can't just win the strongest man competition, we gotta train for it.....to me it looks like we're doing that now. on our way.

I'm not just happy to be in the ball-park, I'm happy to be near the home-run wall...a stand-up tripple into the far corner is still a damm good hit, especially with a good outfield.

 

[pilotdad]

So Piedmont applied at CHQ about 3 and a half years ago. Must not have been accepted. Must have been some smart people at CHQ.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Nice comments Rob...summed up my feelings quite nicely...

As far as Piedmont's thoughts go, I was a WO pilot, and I understand the frustration there. I have friends there, and when I speak about PDT, I use the pronoun "we." If you look back on some of my posts on eariler threads, you'll see a pretty spirited (if poorly worded) defense of the U WO's...however...

With benefit of hindsight, it was our own inability to negotiate with U, manifested through our MEC and management, which put PDT (and ALG) in the position they find themselves in. There hasn't been a decent MEC chair at PDT since Ray Sweeney (a total rock star, BTW, love ya' Ray!)
Ask him sometime about dealing with the mainline MEC and ALPA national. It's instructive.

Henson is a great airline being sunk by ego. Now, that ego is finally being subsumed by reality, it is too late. And too bad.
I am loyal to Chautauqua and my pilot group. But I really do miss Piedmont.

 

[Piedmont DHC-8]

true

I didn't get accepted at sh!ttaco true but I am glad I didn't, After Septemeber 11 I would have been furloughed. (I ran into somebody I interviewed with later and he filled me in).

I realize I was kind of nasty especially with my first post and for that I am sorry, I guess all the crappola going on here is just really getting to me and I am sick and tired of U MEC, Mgt, and this industry as a whole. I just don't feel its fair that as part of USAirways we are losing aircraft and jobs to people who aren't owned by USAirways.

 

[Slave2theGrind]

I just don't feel its fair that as part of USAirways we are losing aircraft and jobs to people who aren't owned by USAirways

This is EXACTLY how EAGLE pilots feel

 

[USAirways1149]

Are you kidding? Thats exactly how the US AIRWAYS pilots feel!

 

[Slave2theGrind]

I can understand the frustration from the airway pilots, but you guys are not the only one getting hosed. Ask any Eagle pilot.