There Is A Ta!!

[asacap]

To CHQ pilots,

I just finished reading the TA. All I have to say is PLEASE think long and hard about this. You deserve much much much more than this. I know it's better than what you have now, but this will affect your life for the next 7-8 years. At ASA, we signed our contract 5 years ago and have better pay and work rules. Personally, I would vote no.

 

[Buss_Driver]

Let's keep comparisons in context

To CHQ pilots,

I just finished reading the TA. All I have to say is PLEASE think long and hard about this. You deserve much much much more than this. I know it's better than what you have now, but this will affect your life for the next 7-8 years. At ASA, we signed our contract 5 years ago and have better pay and work rules. Personally, I would vote no.

Come on! Can't we stop making unrealistic comparisons?

Keep some perspective. The world economy, the US economy, and the industry are not what they were 5 years ago!

In the face of many other regionals taking concessions (or seriously considering them), our own company offering a negative slide on what was previously voted down (and saying that's the best we'll ever get), and the looming presence of Republic (not going to make any remarks about mesa/freedom but nuff said), our EC has made vast improvements.

I am not claiming it is perfect and I am new enough in this industry not to suggest that I have the answers. But I won't delude myself (or others) into thinking that Comair + anything was possible in these conditions! In 4 years (not 7-8) we will have an ammendable contract (you know, 2007, the peak of retirements) and maybe we'll get the chance to play leapfrog but, until then, let's not fall off the ladder while reaching for the stars!

One final thought: this pilot group has stuck together so far and, I expect, we will try to make a good decision without getting too emotional while fine-tooth-combing the contract. The opinions of outsiders (especially those with experience) is appreciated but please don't try to beat us over the collective head with your views! Please try to keep the comparisons to a minimum and within perspective.

S

 

[asacap]

Buss_Driver,

I certainly meant no offense. I apologize if you think I did. I just think you guys work hard and deserve more. I will vote no on anythin that doesn't beat Comair. Thats just how I feel. Also, a 4 year contract + 2-3 years to renegotiate a new contract is what I meant. I should have said 6-7 years. Goos luck.

 

[Airpiraterob]

so yall think its definite that you CAN get better than Comair?

Check this out. Comair struck in the Spring of '01....way way before 9/11. even if the majors were already starting their spiral down, the business transfer to the regionals from the majors would then have been just like it is today....GOOD for the regional airlines. there was no reason to believe the economy would be crippled like it has been and is now. yes the economy grew lately....but then how much MILITARY money has been spent into the economy? alot...thats why its growing. We'll see what happens once the military stops spending this much.

things aren't comming up roses. To restate whats been said, whats now is now and what was then...just in '01 even....was then. A lesson was learned from the strike...Multiple codeshare partners into the same hubs so a strike wont cripple so badly. they've learned ways around such a strike and it wont have the same effect again. So ask for whatever you want to and see if you can get more than Comair. Comair knows more now.

I really don't believe it will happen in this climate. not with the fuel costs now, not with the reduction in travel now, not with the security/safety costs now. Just those 3 biggies have drasticly changed since comair's championing of the industry. I don't believe it will happen the way yall want it to. When that ammendable comes up in 4 years, and the economy looks better and the 'happier-after-ratified' pilots have shown great results....then theres big hope for more. We could even get it then too. CHQ is growing. were not the biggest but we're on the way and this is one of the steps there....called 'blocks of learning'. We can't just win the strongest man competition, we gotta train for it.....to me it looks like we're doing that now. on our way.

I'm not just happy to be in the ball-park, I'm happy to be near the home-run wall...a stand-up tripple into the far corner is still a damm good hit, especially with a good outfield.

 

[pilotdad]

So Piedmont applied at CHQ about 3 and a half years ago. Must not have been accepted. Must have been some smart people at CHQ.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Nice comments Rob...summed up my feelings quite nicely...

As far as Piedmont's thoughts go, I was a WO pilot, and I understand the frustration there. I have friends there, and when I speak about PDT, I use the pronoun "we." If you look back on some of my posts on eariler threads, you'll see a pretty spirited (if poorly worded) defense of the U WO's...however...

With benefit of hindsight, it was our own inability to negotiate with U, manifested through our MEC and management, which put PDT (and ALG) in the position they find themselves in. There hasn't been a decent MEC chair at PDT since Ray Sweeney (a total rock star, BTW, love ya' Ray!)
Ask him sometime about dealing with the mainline MEC and ALPA national. It's instructive.

Henson is a great airline being sunk by ego. Now, that ego is finally being subsumed by reality, it is too late. And too bad.
I am loyal to Chautauqua and my pilot group. But I really do miss Piedmont.

 

[Piedmont DHC-8]

true

I didn't get accepted at sh!ttaco true but I am glad I didn't, After Septemeber 11 I would have been furloughed. (I ran into somebody I interviewed with later and he filled me in).

I realize I was kind of nasty especially with my first post and for that I am sorry, I guess all the crappola going on here is just really getting to me and I am sick and tired of U MEC, Mgt, and this industry as a whole. I just don't feel its fair that as part of USAirways we are losing aircraft and jobs to people who aren't owned by USAirways.

 

[Slave2theGrind]

I just don't feel its fair that as part of USAirways we are losing aircraft and jobs to people who aren't owned by USAirways

This is EXACTLY how EAGLE pilots feel

 

[USAirways1149]

Are you kidding? Thats exactly how the US AIRWAYS pilots feel!

 

[Slave2theGrind]

I can understand the frustration from the airway pilots, but you guys are not the only one getting hosed. Ask any Eagle pilot.

 

[Piedmont DHC-8]

hello.............

Guess what USAirways 1149? Piedmont, Allegheny, and PSA are owned by USAIRWAYS Group. So I would think you guys would want to keep these aircraft in the family so your furloughed pilots could fly some of em? Or didn't you know that USAirways had 3 wholly owned carriers? Because to tell you the truth most of your pilots don't know there are 3 wholly owned carriers and the ones that do think we already have all the jets or will be getting them.
I even had some idiot on the jump seat the other day that looked right at us and asked "so, how do you like those rjs at Piedmont?"... These comments really show how much mainline pilots know what is going on around them.....

 

[USAirways1149]

There are three wholly-owneds at US Airways.

PSA, Piedmont, and Allegheny.

PSA flies the Dornier 328 Turboprop
Piedmont and Allegheny the Dash 8

PSA will acqure the CRJ this winter.

Affiliate carriers include Chautauqua, Trans-States, Shuttle America, Mesa, Air Midwest, Colgan...

Stick your attitude where the sun don't shine.

 

[Conquest Driver]

It's really to bad

I flew for Piedmont for about three years and I am very sorry to see what is happening to all of "us". Piedmont had lots of great people and the Dash is a great aiplane (DCA was the best!) Hope everyone can find work elsewhere and soon.


CD

 

[Piedmont DHC-8]

Airways1149

Airways 1149, I am surprised and glad to see you are in the know about your company. My attitude was not directed at you in particular, it is just that most of your brothers up there at mainline don't have a clue about the aforementioned. And if you argue otherwise, why is it that many times when we get a mainline jumpseater they don't have a clue about us or what we fly? aughhhhhhhhhhh why is everthing so frustrating at this company?????????????????????????????????

 

[AceCrackshot]

I would have to second Piedmonts thoughts on this one USAirways1149...though I would qualify that by saying that it is pretty endemic to the industry as whole...Nothing like walking up the jetway, handing your ID to the captain, asking for a ride, and being asked "Who do you guys fly express for?" and answering "You."

True story, many times, BTW. And what really hurts is the suspicion that our careers are in no small way being controlled by men who demonstrate the same knowledge of their own organization, let alone a working knowledge of commercial aviation as a whole.

Yeah, Piedmont working at PDT is frustrating...and it doesn't have to be this way...sorry.

 

[Strikefinder]

It's been my take on the issue that the reason why there's a Chautauqua is because there's an ALPA at mainline and a mainline management wing.

The reality is that USAir Mainline, as far as I can see it, doesn't have the capital to finance new aircraft, and if they go to Piedmont or Allegheny, they come off the balance sheet at USAir. It's a debt liability which they don't treat the same way in the financial world as they treat the payments to a company like Chautauqua, Mesa, or Colgan.

Costs have to be cut somewhere, at the ALPA MEC allowed it to be done at the expense of the pilots at Piedmont and Allegheny, it appears. Not that they didn't take heavy concessions, but when you're losing billions, the company (particularly in bankruptcy) has to do anything to eliminate the liabilities column on their SEC paperwork. Chautauqua and Mesa help with that. I really believe that there are either aircraft at contract carriers for USAir, or no regional aircraft at all.

It makes me ill to think about the folks at the WOs, and what their future holds. No more so than the folks at Shuttle America, for all the doom and gloom that seems to be around for them. The fact that I am at Chautauqua is a stroke of luck rather than prescience, as I would have gladly accepted a position with just about anybody who'd hire me last year.

And who knows what will happen with our TA? And who knows what the correct answer is to it? There's a lot of "I told you so" going around here for a group of people that have no real idea of what's going to happen (including me). We could all be out on our butts in a few months, too. Which is why I don't wish ill will on anybody, WO or not, jets or not, whatever. I like Chautauqua, and think we've got good folks here for the most part. But I hope that everybody finds a way to sqweak out of this with their livlihood attached.