Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

The Truth about what AA did to TWA F/A's

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
A

AviaNation

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Posts
98
As many of you already know, when AA merged with TWA, they 'assured' the TWA people that they would be treated fairly. In truth, they have been stapled to the bottom of AA seniority, and subsequently furloughed. Many of these furloughees will lose all of their recall rights this fall, ending their 20+ year airline career with nothing.

Check this blog for mor information, and to leave your comments.

http://trustno1-1.blogspot.com/
 
...

accinelli said:
oh Boo hoo. There are better opportunities than AA out there.
Click to expand...
IDIOT. Tell somebody that after 25 years senority that is set to retire in another 5 years, and gets furlowed! Do you actually think that starting over with a regonal is gonna pay the bills at that point.
 
I read most of the blog. There is (justifiably) extreme revulsion of all that is AA and APFA. Comments that would be instantly censored here at FI, personal attacks, and name calling are standard. Yet the thrust of the blogging is "we want to go back to work at AA." Amazing.

You'd end up with two FA groups per plane, hating each other more than the Israelis and Hezbollah hate each other. That'd be a smooth-running on-time machine, and I'm certain they'd be sparkling in an emergency when and if it happens. :rolleyes:

I was going to cut and paste some choice rants, but it's not worth it. The dichotomy is bizarre. "AA SUCKS! APFA NEEDS AN ENEMA! DIE!! CORRUPTION!! WE HATE YOU!! but please take us back."

I really do hope you have success, but I don't know if this is the best way to do it. If I had the answers, I'd be making millions with stock options working for management, but I just drive the bus. Good luck, and I mean that sincerely. If you make it back, hopefully we'll work together well.
 
The TWA flight attendants, who were screwed by AMR and APFA, want their jobs back AND with date of hire (at TWA) seniority, or at least a semblance of a "fair and equitable integration" as promised by Don Carty to Congress. Being stapled to the bottom of the AA list was neither fair nor equitable. They deserve it since this was their career and professional life, just like the TWA pilots who got screwed by AMR, APA and ALPA.
 
Last edited:
xkuzme1 said:
IDIOT. Tell somebody that after 25 years senority that is set to retire in another 5 years, and gets furlowed! Do you actually think that starting over with a regonal is gonna pay the bills at that point.
Click to expand...

"Furlowed." With smarts like that you'd be lucky to get hired with a regional.
 
Rik717pilot said:
The TWA flight attendants, who were screwed by AMR and APFA, want their jobs back AND with date of hire (at TWA) seniority, or at least a semblance of a "fair and equitable integration" as promised by Don Carty to Congress. Being stapled to the bottom of the AA list was neither fair nor equitable. They deserve it since this was their career and professional life, just like the TWA pilots who got screwed by AMR, APA and ALPA.
Click to expand...

You screw passengers all your life -- then once you're screwed suddenly life's not fair! Ironic.
 
accinelli:

How do you figure that? The TWA FA's didn't screw the pax. Carl Ichan did, as did AMR, DAL, EAL, NWA, etc., but the FA's didn't.
 
AviaNation said:
As many of you already know, when AA merged with TWA, they 'assured' the TWA people that they would be treated fairly. In truth, they have been stapled to the bottom of AA seniority, and subsequently furloughed. Many of these furloughees will lose all of their recall rights this fall, ending their 20+ year airline career with nothing.
Click to expand...
Wasn't TWA literally within their final hours before liquidation?
AA was in their pursuit to become the worlds largest airline, so, at the last minute, AA outright purchased TWA (not merged). I believe AA has sold alot of the TWA birds and also want to downsize STL more.
I understand if two airlines willingly merge, like Continental and United for example, no matter how both companies decide to integrate the 2 seniority lists, the pilots are going to be pi$$ed off no matter what. But in a case where one airline buys another, (like AA/TWA), how should the seniority list be merged? Obviously most TWA people hate AA because they were stapled to the bottom of the list, but alot of people seem to think that AA rescued TWA.
 
TWA got hosed by AMR/APA/APFA/ALPA in the deal. Chap 11 wasn't declared until AMR decided they didn't want to support Carl Ichan's Karabu ticket deal. Then AMR perpetrated the screw jobs with the help of APA,ALPA and APFA.
 
Midnight Flyer said:
Wasn't TWA literally within their final hours before liquidation?
AA was in their pursuit to become the worlds largest airline, so, at the last minute, AA outright purchased TWA (not merged). I believe AA has sold alot of the TWA birds and also want to downsize STL more.
I understand if two airlines willingly merge, like Continental and United for example, no matter how both companies decide to integrate the 2 seniority lists, the pilots are going to be pi$$ed off no matter what. But in a case where one airline buys another, (like AA/TWA), how should the seniority list be merged? Obviously most TWA people hate AA because they were stapled to the bottom of the list, but alot of people seem to think that AA rescued TWA.
Click to expand...

TWA had been limping along for 20 years. They weren't going to go out of business the next day. However, Congress was balking at the merger, and one of the things that helped seal the deal was Carty's promise that there would be a "fair and equitable" integration of all employee groups. In fact, NO TWA employee group was treated fairly. Carty should have gone to jail for perjury before Congress, and a fair deal should have been forced.
 
Gofish,

The reason the TWA guys came to Eagle is because of the flow through agreement between AMR/APA/ALPA/Eagle. This was a big deal for the Eagle guys.. straight to AA, but they didn't expect the consequences of the flow back, now did they. The TWA guys just did what they had to do to survive after the main line SNB's hosed 'em with Supp CC. I would bet that 99.99% of the TWA guys at Eagle don't want to be there any more than you want them to be there. Bottom line is that AMR/APA/ALPA/APFA etc. don't care about the rank and file, only their personal corporate bonus' and big union paychecks. All in all, I'm pretty happy that I turned down the flow back. I don't want to work in such a poisonous atmosphere.

The way around this is to realign the seniority lists with a fair integration for both the pilots and FA's. Sadly, we know this will not happen without a court order.
 
Last edited:
Basically "seniority" screwed you all. And that is a union thing. Who's to blame now.

The last I heard Carty was doing ok.
 
I hope Carty gets a new "girl friend" in the big house, a guy named Bubba.

accinelli: Who's to blame? The APFA is who screwed the TWA flight attendants. Seniority is what many earned over the 20-30 and even 40 years of faithful service to TWA and its passengers all over the world.
 
accinelli said:
Basically "seniority" screwed you all. And that is a union thing. Who's to blame now.

The last I heard Carty was doing ok.
Click to expand...

Wrong. The AA pilots with the willing assistance of ALPA screwed the TWA pilots, and the AA in general screwed every other TWA employee.
 
Midnight Flyer said:
Wasn't TWA literally within their final hours before liquidation?
AA was in their pursuit to become the worlds largest airline, so, at the last minute, AA outright purchased TWA (not merged). I believe AA has sold alot of the TWA birds and also want to downsize STL more.
I understand if two airlines willingly merge, like Continental and United for example, no matter how both companies decide to integrate the 2 seniority lists, the pilots are going to be pi$$ed off no matter what. But in a case where one airline buys another, (like AA/TWA), how should the seniority list be merged? Obviously most TWA people hate AA because they were stapled to the bottom of the list, but alot of people seem to think that AA rescued TWA.
Click to expand...

Well said. All true. Not anyone's fault at AA that Carl sent TWA into bankruptcy three times. So what are all you x-twa'ers saying? That you would have voted against AA acquiring TWA had you known about the seniority intergration? Please, what other options did you have? Face it, you would have all been out of a job that much sooner had you turned down AA's offer. I for one am sick and tired of hearing about poor ol' TWA and how bad they were treated by AA. You want to be mad at someone, be mad at TWA's management.

So get over it. No one cares anymore. You would be better served if you just moved on with your life.
 
Coool Hand Luke said:
Well said. All true. Not anyone's fault at AA that Carl sent TWA into bankruptcy three times. So what are all you x-twa'ers saying? That you would have voted against AA acquiring TWA had you known about the seniority intergration? Please, what other options did you have? Face it, you would have all been out of a job that much sooner had you turned down AA's offer. I for one am sick and tired of hearing about poor ol' TWA and how bad they were treated by AA. You want to be mad at someone, be mad at TWA's management.

So get over it. No one cares anymore. You would be better served if you just moved on with your life.
Click to expand...

Like I said before, TWA had been on the ropes in one way or another ever since H. Hughes was in charge. They would not have gone away immediately had AA not bought them. They said they would to get congress to approve the deal, but the fact is they would have continued to limp along one way or the other, just as they always had.

And you cannot deny that one of the reasons that Congress DID approve the buyout was Carty promising that there would be a "fair and equitable" seniority list integration. That didn't happen, despite his promises under oath before the Congress. Ex TWAers have every right to be upset with AA, both it's management and it's employee groups.
 
atrdriver said:
Ex TWAers have every right to be upset with AA, both it's management and it's employee groups.
Click to expand...
What the?

I understand ex TWAers being upset at AA mgmt, but why should TWAers be upset at the AA pilot group?
Heck, AA pilots have had to put up with the shanannigans of their evil mgmt alot longer than the TWA people have; trust me, lots of AAers hate their mgmt more than ex TWAers.

Maybe I'm missing something, I don't know, but why be sore against the AA pilot group because of something their mgmt did?
 
It is AMR that is holding all the cards.

AMR for better or worse really just figured they could pick up a few things at the fire sale of TWA going under. They did not want nor do they continue to want a single employee from TWA. This is really the hard core facts, if were any different the process would have been changed along the way.
The extension of recall rights simply will not happen, this is their goal to have them run out so they can eventially hire more folks that belong to the "master race" from their perceptions. While it is deplorable, this is their corporate strategy and they will continue in that direction.
 
Ladies and gents,

One thing that should NOT be said is "Get over it." When you take a furlough for whatever reason, your life is pretty much in shambles. It's pretty easy for someone who's never been furlouged to say "Get over it."

That said - as someone mentioned above, TWA employees have EVERY RIGHT to be ticked off at anything represented by the AA logo. Very simply, they were furloughed by AA management as a result of the seniority hit they took as part of the deal. Who wouldn't have bitter feelings over that? I know I would.

One important fact needs to be brought up, however, and it's this: If you were to take a look at some past mergers/acquisitions, you'll notice that in cases where the new airline prospered, the newly merged employees are quite happy with the outcome - REGARDLESS of the seniority integration.

Take SWA/Morris. They not only stapled 100% of the pilots, they gave them one years' probation! Talk about a screw job, huh! Well, go find a Morris pilot today, and ask him/her about whether they got screwed. Screwed? Heck no, I'm a captain at SWA! Best deal I ever got!

Here's my point - had TWA pilots and FAs stayed on the property and upgraded per their normal career expectations, you would have barely heard a peep out of them. Had AA propsered after the buyout, everyone would've been somewhat content with the outcome - because they would have all stayed on the property, upgrading when able, earning a living under a company that was prospering.

But when the chips are down, and the new company starts laying off, and most of those layoffs are from the new employee group, believe me, you're gonna hear about it. This, then, is the case with TWA.

Ladies and gents, my hat is off to the fine TWA employees - several of which are friends of mine from having attended Parks College in STL - who made TWA what it was. I'm truly sorry you had to go through all this nightmare. Above all, for those of you who are able to come back some day - IF you want to come back - you will all make a fine addition and contribute greatly to our pilot group, as we've already seen with those who stayed on the property.

v/r,
73
an "SNB" who never really agreed with what went down.
 
accinelli said:
oh Boo hoo. There are better opportunities than AA out there.
Click to expand...
Are you really this stupid?
 
aa73.

Nice post. As a furloughed TWA captain it's about the best from the natives that I have seen. What most people don't know about the pilot integration is that ALPA/APA/AMR conspired to make this deal work at the expense of the TWA pilots seniority. APA wanted to staple the TWAers, AMR just didn't give a rats ass as long as they made money in the deal and ALPA wanted the APA pilots back on the dues paying rolls to heal the schysm (sp?) created when APA broke away from ALPA in 1963.
 
Rik717,

Actually, I think most folks that frequent this board know most of the details on what happened and why. It's been covered once or twice. :rolleyes: While I've always maintained that there should NEVER be any stapling in any merger/acquisition, I do believe that had 9/11 not happened, we all would have been singing a somewhat different tune, and that you would not have been furloughed, and probably would have remained a CA to this day.

Also, please realize that there are quite a few natives who take my stance on the whole subject, and we would like nothing more than to have all of you recalled, pronto - however, I realize why more than a few of you would bypass recall for obvious reasons. In which case, I hope you've all found better employment.

My best to all furloughed AA/TWA employees,
73
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom