The Truth about what AA did to TWA F/A's

[atrdriver]

Basically "seniority" screwed you all. And that is a union thing. Who's to blame now.

The last I heard Carty was doing ok.

Wrong. The AA pilots with the willing assistance of ALPA screwed the TWA pilots, and the AA in general screwed every other TWA employee.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Wasn't TWA literally within their final hours before liquidation?
AA was in their pursuit to become the worlds largest airline, so, at the last minute, AA outright purchased TWA (not merged). I believe AA has sold alot of the TWA birds and also want to downsize STL more.
I understand if two airlines willingly merge, like Continental and United for example, no matter how both companies decide to integrate the 2 seniority lists, the pilots are going to be pi$$ed off no matter what. But in a case where one airline buys another, (like AA/TWA), how should the seniority list be merged? Obviously most TWA people hate AA because they were stapled to the bottom of the list, but alot of people seem to think that AA rescued TWA.

Well said. All true. Not anyone's fault at AA that Carl sent TWA into bankruptcy three times. So what are all you x-twa'ers saying? That you would have voted against AA acquiring TWA had you known about the seniority intergration? Please, what other options did you have? Face it, you would have all been out of a job that much sooner had you turned down AA's offer. I for one am sick and tired of hearing about poor ol' TWA and how bad they were treated by AA. You want to be mad at someone, be mad at TWA's management.

So get over it. No one cares anymore. You would be better served if you just moved on with your life.

 

[atrdriver]

Well said. All true. Not anyone's fault at AA that Carl sent TWA into bankruptcy three times. So what are all you x-twa'ers saying? That you would have voted against AA acquiring TWA had you known about the seniority intergration? Please, what other options did you have? Face it, you would have all been out of a job that much sooner had you turned down AA's offer. I for one am sick and tired of hearing about poor ol' TWA and how bad they were treated by AA. You want to be mad at someone, be mad at TWA's management.

So get over it. No one cares anymore. You would be better served if you just moved on with your life.

Like I said before, TWA had been on the ropes in one way or another ever since H. Hughes was in charge. They would not have gone away immediately had AA not bought them. They said they would to get congress to approve the deal, but the fact is they would have continued to limp along one way or the other, just as they always had.

And you cannot deny that one of the reasons that Congress DID approve the buyout was Carty promising that there would be a "fair and equitable" seniority list integration. That didn't happen, despite his promises under oath before the Congress. Ex TWAers have every right to be upset with AA, both it's management and it's employee groups.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Ex TWAers have every right to be upset with AA, both it's management and it's employee groups.

What the?

I understand ex TWAers being upset at AA mgmt, but why should TWAers be upset at the AA pilot group?
Heck, AA pilots have had to put up with the shanannigans of their evil mgmt alot longer than the TWA people have; trust me, lots of AAers hate their mgmt more than ex TWAers.

Maybe I'm missing something, I don't know, but why be sore against the AA pilot group because of something their mgmt did?

 

[Peanut gallery]

It is AMR that is holding all the cards.

AMR for better or worse really just figured they could pick up a few things at the fire sale of TWA going under. They did not want nor do they continue to want a single employee from TWA. This is really the hard core facts, if were any different the process would have been changed along the way.
The extension of recall rights simply will not happen, this is their goal to have them run out so they can eventially hire more folks that belong to the "master race" from their perceptions. While it is deplorable, this is their corporate strategy and they will continue in that direction.

 

[aa73]

Ladies and gents,

One thing that should NOT be said is "Get over it." When you take a furlough for whatever reason, your life is pretty much in shambles. It's pretty easy for someone who's never been furlouged to say "Get over it."

That said - as someone mentioned above, TWA employees have EVERY RIGHT to be ticked off at anything represented by the AA logo. Very simply, they were furloughed by AA management as a result of the seniority hit they took as part of the deal. Who wouldn't have bitter feelings over that? I know I would.

One important fact needs to be brought up, however, and it's this: If you were to take a look at some past mergers/acquisitions, you'll notice that in cases where the new airline prospered, the newly merged employees are quite happy with the outcome - REGARDLESS of the seniority integration.

Take SWA/Morris. They not only stapled 100% of the pilots, they gave them one years' probation! Talk about a screw job, huh! Well, go find a Morris pilot today, and ask him/her about whether they got screwed. Screwed? Heck no, I'm a captain at SWA! Best deal I ever got!

Here's my point - had TWA pilots and FAs stayed on the property and upgraded per their normal career expectations, you would have barely heard a peep out of them. Had AA propsered after the buyout, everyone would've been somewhat content with the outcome - because they would have all stayed on the property, upgrading when able, earning a living under a company that was prospering.

But when the chips are down, and the new company starts laying off, and most of those layoffs are from the new employee group, believe me, you're gonna hear about it. This, then, is the case with TWA.

Ladies and gents, my hat is off to the fine TWA employees - several of which are friends of mine from having attended Parks College in STL - who made TWA what it was. I'm truly sorry you had to go through all this nightmare. Above all, for those of you who are able to come back some day - IF you want to come back - you will all make a fine addition and contribute greatly to our pilot group, as we've already seen with those who stayed on the property.

v/r,
73
an "SNB" who never really agreed with what went down.

 

[siucavflight]

oh Boo hoo. There are better opportunities than AA out there.

Are you really this stupid?

 

[Rik717pilot]

aa73.

Nice post. As a furloughed TWA captain it's about the best from the natives that I have seen. What most people don't know about the pilot integration is that ALPA/APA/AMR conspired to make this deal work at the expense of the TWA pilots seniority. APA wanted to staple the TWAers, AMR just didn't give a rats ass as long as they made money in the deal and ALPA wanted the APA pilots back on the dues paying rolls to heal the schysm (sp?) created when APA broke away from ALPA in 1963.

 

[mcjohn]

Man...I need to keep studying up on all this before I even consider joining the masses.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

oops...


...

 

[aa73]

Rik717,

Actually, I think most folks that frequent this board know most of the details on what happened and why. It's been covered once or twice. While I've always maintained that there should NEVER be any stapling in any merger/acquisition, I do believe that had 9/11 not happened, we all would have been singing a somewhat different tune, and that you would not have been furloughed, and probably would have remained a CA to this day.

Also, please realize that there are quite a few natives who take my stance on the whole subject, and we would like nothing more than to have all of you recalled, pronto - however, I realize why more than a few of you would bypass recall for obvious reasons. In which case, I hope you've all found better employment.

My best to all furloughed AA/TWA employees,
73

 

[mcjohn]

Natives?

 

[aa73]

Natives = native AA employees.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Natives = native AA employees.

How bout nAAtive

 

[Fblowjets]

To all you TWA FA's who went to TSA and flew with us on the J-41, I still love ya. Good luck on the fight
Todd