The REAL NJ TA Story

[Big Wave]

AMEX Card--Just The Facts

Trying to take the "glass half full" perspective:

The assumptions (there’s that word) below are based on current use of the Hilton AMEX:

As I understand it, the AMEX provides the benefits below:
a. 5 points/dollar spent at Hilton properties
b. 5 points/dollar spent for gas, groceries, restaurants, wireless phone service
c. 3 points/dollar spent for everything else

Also, as I understand it, HHonors Diamond status provides the following:
d. 10 points/dollar at Hilton properties (Hampton Inns apply this to room charges only)
e. 5 points/dollar Diamond status bonus

Your “Double Dip” selection (from the “MyWay” choices on the HHonors website) allows you to choose between points plus: variable airline miles, fixed airline miles (500), or an additional 500 points.

So, using the “Point Calculator” on the HHonors website, a one-night stay in a $100 property yields the following:
500 AMEX points
1000 HHonors base points
500 HHonors Diamond points
500 miles, or 500 additional points (depending on your “Double Dip” selection)

So, I guess I'm “assuming” (yikes!) that the only HHonors points loss in switching to the company card is that “500± points per single-night stay” (round figure from “a” above).

But, I was a poli-sci major, and the above calculations qualify as "higher math". They are, therefore, suspect.

 

[ramf001]

Big Wave,

You are correct about the Company Card vs the Hilton AMEX. The people running around saying they are losing thousands of dollars per year are ignorant of how it actually works. I've used both and when you break it all down in a worst case scenerio the max Hilton points you lose is about 2-3 nights worth of points. However you gain an airline ticket. Under the new TA you gain even more.

You have to seperate the Diamond Reward program from the card itself. I use the company card so when I stay at a Hilton (assuming it's a $100 stay) I get 1500 points, 500 airline miles, and 100 GE reward points. When I used the Hilton AMEX I would get 500 more hilton points instead of the 100 GE points.

So to finish this up: Worst case scenerio...

24 weeks on the road @ 6 hotels = 144 nights.
$100 average night X 5 points per dollar=
72,000 points. That's not quite 3 nights in a hotel.

Thousands of dollars? I think not. By the way my example is based on spending 144 nights in nothing but Hiltons. I sometimes go whole tours without staying in a Hilton.

 

[RTRHD]

Come on guys,are you really worried about points. I mean thats exactly what I want to do when I get back get on another airliner and go stay in a hotel. (sarcasm intended) We get plenty anyway I donate most of mine to military family's.

 

[VVJM265]

Who are you and what have you done with FLYLOW. :laugh:

Having flown with the dude....that's friggin funny!

 

[Humphreybogart]

Thanks for all who responded, it cleared things up for me. It seems the positives outweigh the negatives by far, of this new TA.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Having flown with the dude....that's friggin funny!

And that was a good week!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Thanks for all who responded, it cleared things up for me. It seems the positives outweigh the negatives by far, of this new TA.

A win-win agreement that put all of us as a company in a better place WITH the TA than without.

Yes.

 

[fischman]

Humpy,

I understand your skepticism. I would be skeptical too looking in from the outside.

This deal started out to be a win-win from it's inception. I was skeptical as HELL at first.

In the end, it was a win-win.

What did we gain? Stuff.

What did we lose? Stuff.

In the end, it was all a horce a piece.... pretty much a wash.

The F/Os got a HUGE helping hand. What's good for them is good for me in the long run. I received good things as a PIC too, not as much though. They were due much more.

Following the labor strife of 2005, we needed this.

What did we gain that can NEVER be put into the writing of any CBA? Mutual respect for each other (management and labor) as one team and a reinvested energy to work through issues together.

That is just priceless. Period.

You forgot the biggest thing!!!!!

The 2007 CBA secured better job security for NJA and NJI pilots by making ALL future NJI new-hires part of the union. Essentially, they are working on merging the two companies. This is good for ALL of us!

 

[gutshotdraw]

You forgot the biggest thing!!!!!

The 2007 CBA secured better job security for NJA and NJI pilots by making ALL future NJI new-hires part of the union. Essentially, they are working on merging the two companies. This is good for ALL of us!

Fisch,

They are working on merging the two seniority lists but not the two companies. NJI will continue to operate as a stand-alone company with Okatie as the headquarters and with separate work rules just as NJLA does now. The only changes down the road will be that all new positions will be filled by 1108 members (next November) and NJI pilots will eventually hold 1108 seniority numbers and be subject to the CBA (date to be determined).

It may seem like a small distinction but if you ask any of the crossover guys if they want to go back to CMH running their lives you will get a resounding NO.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

Fisch,

They are working on merging the two seniority lists but not the two companies. NJI will continue to operate as a stand-alone company with Okatie as the headquarters and with separate work rules just as NJLA does now. The only changes down the road will be that all new positions will be filled by 1108 members (next November) and NJI pilots will eventually hold 1108 seniority numbers and be subject to the CBA (date to be determined).

It may seem like a small distinction but if you ask any of the crossover guys if they want to go back to CMH running their lives you will get a resounding NO.

Gutshotdraw,

Just to clarify one point: NJLA pilots are covered by the 2007 CBA. Hence, all NJLA pilots are covered by the work rules of the 2007 CBA. There are no separate work rules for NJA and NJLA! Granted, NJLA pilots are 100% more likely to fall under the augmented crew provisions of the 2007 CBA then NJA pilots.

Can we please merge companies and let Okatie run the whole operation with the same efficiency?!

 

[realityman]

Fisch,

They are working on merging the two seniority lists but not the two companies. NJI will continue to operate as a stand-alone company with Okatie as the headquarters and with separate work rules just as NJLA does now. The only changes down the road will be that all new positions will be filled by 1108 members (next November) and NJI pilots will eventually hold 1108 seniority numbers and be subject to the CBA (date to be determined).

It may seem like a small distinction but if you ask any of the crossover guys if they want to go back to CMH running their lives you will get a resounding NO.

Just a clarification. In the first part of your post you claim it'll be separate work rules, but at the end mention being under our CBA. If you're operating under our CBA you must definitely will not have separate work rules.
There will be fences for seat positions and pay, but completely integrated in all other respects. Now, as for which location is running the operation, I do hope the G's keep Okatie!

 

[RTRHD]

OK I will bite what does the New Jersey Library Association (NJLA) have to do with anything. Serious what is NJLA? Is it the BBJ's.

 

[realityman]

Netjets Large Aircraft.

Yep. BBJ's

 

[RTRHD]

Ok,duh!!!!

 

[gutshotdraw]

By work rules, I am referring to company operations policies that are not covered by the CBA. For one rather interesting example, there is nothing in the CBA that says what the Captain-First Officer ratio must be. Therefore, before the seniority integration occurs, NJI management could elect to make the ratio 90-10 if they wanted thereby granting every NJI F/O currently on the property PIC status and the salary that goes with it. Interesting prospect, yes?

 

[IDEtoNJA]

By work rules, I am referring to company operations policies that are not covered by the CBA. For one rather interesting example, there is nothing in the CBA that says what the Captain-First Officer ratio must be. Therefore, before the seniority integration occurs, NJI management could elect to make the ratio 90-10 if they wanted thereby granting every NJI F/O currently on the property PIC status and the salary that goes with it. Interesting prospect, yes?

Gutshotdraw,

The example you mention brings up an interesting situation.

Lets assume the Company does decide to change the PIC to SIC ratio on the NJI side to a 9 to 1 ratio. How many SIC's does NJI currently have? Does a seat/equipment lock affect non cross over NJI SIC's? How would the requirements of LOA 01-013 affect the Company's wishes to award each and every non cross over SIC to a PIC position? What would the logistics and cost be to abide by the requirements of LOA 01-013 in this scenario?

IDEtoNJA

 

[FLYLOW22]

Fisch,

They are working on merging the two seniority lists but not the two companies. NJI will continue to operate as a stand-alone company with Okatie as the headquarters and with separate work rules just as NJLA does now. The only changes down the road will be that all new positions will be filled by 1108 members (next November) and NJI pilots will eventually hold 1108 seniority numbers and be subject to the CBA (date to be determined).

It may seem like a small distinction but if you ask any of the crossover guys if they want to go back to CMH running their lives you will get a resounding NO.

I know that it seems like the 2 companies are "separate" now and in the future but with all the sitance we are closing between NJLA, NJA and NJI... it's going to feel like one company because it is... NetJets.

This us/them crap was stupid from the beginning. It's to see it end.

NJLA keeps it's own management team too... for looks.

 

[SELFloadingCRGO]

I too am a little naive as to the fractional side so please forgive me in advance.

Is one awarded aircraft type in newhire class based on the "seniority" within that class as to what's available? Or is it just assigned?

What aircraft are the "junior" aircraft and therefore what you'll most likely get?

Is reserve similiar to that of an airline? When on reserve does one sit at the FBO awaiting an assignment? And about how long would one have to sit reserve before holding a more fixed schedule?

Are both pilots typed in the aircraft that you get? Also, about how long has the switch from right seat to left seat been running?

I've seen it mentioned that the retirement is possibly a bit subpar, from what I've seen the only retirement is the 401k is that correct?

Again thank you in advance for tolerating my ignorance. :0

 

[fischman]

I too am a little naive as to the fractional side so please forgive me in advance.

Is one awarded aircraft type in newhire class based on the "seniority" within that class as to what's available? Or is it just assigned?

What aircraft are the "junior" aircraft and therefore what you'll most likely get?

Is reserve similiar to that of an airline? When on reserve does one sit at the FBO awaiting an assignment? And about how long would one have to sit reserve before holding a more fixed schedule?

Are both pilots typed in the aircraft that you get? Also, about how long has the switch from right seat to left seat been running?

I've seen it mentioned that the retirement is possibly a bit subpar, from what I've seen the only retirement is the 401k is that correct?

Again thank you in advance for tolerating my ignorance. :0

The answers to all your question are on these boards. Use the search function.

 

[Semore Butts]

Wow Bogey

The most civil Netjets post I have ever seen from you?

I hope your management gives you a little infusion of "scratch" to keep up with the "Santoulis"!

If they do I'm sure it won't be because of the IBB!

Don't go off on me man, I aint "hatin".

For the other guy, you come to INDOC knowing what aircraft you are flying.