the pro's and cons of unions in the fractional aviation and airline industry

[Fozzy]

Yep....it was all the non-union carriers that seemed to weather the down turn and keep their jobs, same pay or slightly reduced pay, keep pensions, etc. While all the union carriers were laying off their pilots, reducing pay, taking away their pensions etc.. And not only that, but they had to pay thier union dues to have all that stuff taken away. Does not seem to be a very good return on your money. Seems to be a no brainer to me.

Who!?! I would like some references please.

 

[Iam3rd]

I guess I should also correct myself. I know that some of the airlines have an "in-house union". I would have to lump them into the non-union group because they do not act like your typical union. They actually work with mgmt. and do whats best for the company as a whole....at least most of them do anyway.....and I think you know who they are....Southwest-in house union, Airtran-in house union, Jetblue-non-union, etc.

When it comes to Teamsters, ALPA, etc. (which they are just another form of mgmt.) negotiating contracts, all you have is one mgmt. fighting against another mgmt. looking out for their self interest and not the interests of the company as a whole (every one involved).

 

[pilotpat]

All talking out of their a$$es...you guys (Iam3rd, B19) need to find some peace. Unions are simply not the evildoers you attempt to make them out to be. My God, this is sofa king boring.

 

[B19 Flyer]

All talking out of their a$$es...you guys (Iam3rd, B19) need to find some peace. Unions are simply not the evildoers you attempt to make them out to be. My God, this is sofa king boring.

Nothing is evil until you've been done wrong. Once that happens, you remember it for the rest of you life and you want to make sure history doesn't repeat itself. You haven't been laid off, taken any pay cuts or lost your pension yet have you? Oh, and to address the peace issue, I have peace. It's existed ever since I was smart enough to go to work for a non-union carrier.

 

[CA1900]

Nothing is evil until you've been done wrong. Once that happens, you remember it for the rest of you life and you want to make sure history doesn't repeat itself.

Yes, which is exactly why I vowed my next job would be as a unionized pilot with a strong contract and a determined pilot group. Hence my job at Netjets.

You haven't been laid off, taken any pay cuts or lost your pension yet have you?

Yes, all of the above happened at my prior non-union employer, and I missed the layoff by just a few numbers.

"Never again" indeed.

 

[Diesel]

Hey Iam3rd the union is currently deep in labor relations talks to make sure we get the most productivity out of our contract on both sides. More profit is a win/win for the company and the union pilots.

Too bad you don't understand that.

 

[Iam3rd]

Hey Iam3rd the union is currently deep in labor relations talks to make sure we get the most productivity out of our contract on both sides. More profit is a win/win for the company and the union pilots.

Too bad you don't understand that.

Like I said before Diesel, history speakes for itself regardless of what you and the unions intensions are now. Fact is the non-union carriers and carriers with in-house unions made out so much better than the carriers with ALPA and Teamsters after 9/11. Its a proven fact if you look at the numbers and the state of each company after 9/11. And as always history shows us that people don't seem to learn from history and that history will repeat itself. They always think that its going to be different or that they are the exception.

I will take my chances without the union.....but I don't expect you to understand......

 

[Galaxy]

I noticed how the anti union folks here can only speak of things that some other union did to them. Why not compare ALPA to IBT Airline Division to the IBT 1108. The ONLY Union that supports any fractional is the IBT 1108. Please name one thing that they have done against their members. The 1108 can be compared to what government was in the very begining. Of the people for the people. They are all full time line pilots donating their time serving their brothers and sisters for a better future The mgt at ALPA and unfortunatly the Airline Div IBT has become what politicians are today.

So again I ask..since this is the frac forum....forget about what ALPA, Delta, NWA, US Air has done to you.....that is just stereotyping.....what has the 1108 done against the members?
The answer is nothing... They have made working for the company a better, safer, and more profitable environment.
1108 is my Union and they speak for me

 

[Diesel]

1108 is my union. They are our in-house union.

I think I understand union vs non-union shops more than you can ever understand.

 

[pilotpat]

Oh...I've been laid off from a flying job before. Non-union company, too. It just hasn't tainted me in a bad way. If you had peace, then you wouldn't be trolling the boards union bashing.

Galaxy: Excellent point about your union, by the way.