the pro's and cons of unions in the fractional aviation and airline industry

[Diesel]

Senority doesn't guarantee an upgrade. Senority guarantee's the chance to upgrade. Its up to the individual pilot to jump though all the hoops of upgrade and prove themselves with the knowledge and experience to make the transition.

More FUD

 

[B19 Flyer]

Senority doesn't guarantee an upgrade. Senority guarantee's the chance to upgrade. Its up to the individual pilot to jump though all the hoops of upgrade and prove themselves with the knowledge and experience to make the transition.

More FUD

How many retired airline guys are sitting in the right seat now where you are that can fly circles around the guys in the left seat based on career experience alone? For those retired guys, they should be able to take all that experience directly into the left seat of an airplane with a simular type rating. Instead, they wind up in the right seat and the experience is not used to the best advantage of the carrier. In fractionals, having this flight and leadership experience in the left seat is even more crucial due to the nature of diverse flying. Upgrades by strictly seniority and not merit does not best serve the owner. This experience translates directly to a safer operation. I'll support merit upgrades anytime over seniority upgrades based on safety alone. You can add this to my growing list of reasons why unions are a bad idea in today's aviation environment.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Hmmmm,

Not a pilot...not in management but aloft 23 hours...must be a flight attendant. Sorry but you put that grape fruit pitch out there... I couldn't help myself.

Have a Happy.

That's OK, most of you union supporters drink kool-aide anyway so a grape fruit drink isn't far off the mark. I understand that stuff. Anyway, all 23 hours were spent on the jumpseat flying internationally. Sorry to disappoint you. I don't hold a medical anymore.

 

[FRLWD]

For every arguement you have for a union in AVIATION, I'll give you an example of how a pilot or support worker got screwed over because of a union.

So far all you've done is go on and on about a brief point in history where the airlines were loosing money just prior to 9-11, and then blaming it all on the unions.

Have you read "Flying the Line"? That book demonstrates that unions aren't just about money, they are there to provide protection from the pressure management exerts to whatever it takes to get the job done.

I'd also suggest reading "HARD LANDING, The Epic Contest for Power and Profits That Plunged the Airlines into Chaos" by Thomas Petzinger. It discusses deregulation and the cut-throat competition, that plagues the airline industry to this day.

Come to think of it.....................I'm beginning to think you're related to Frank Lorenzo.

 

[jppt2000]

How many retired airline guys are sitting in the right seat now where you are that can fly circles around the guys in the left seat based on career experience alone? For those retired guys, they should be able to take all that experience directly into the left seat of an airplane with a simular type rating. Instead, they wind up in the right seat and the experience is not used to the best advantage of the carrier. In fractionals, having this flight and leadership experience in the left seat is even more crucial due to the nature of diverse flying. Upgrades by strictly seniority and not merit does not best serve the owner. This experience translates directly to a safer operation. I'll support merit upgrades anytime over seniority upgrades based on safety alone. You can add this to my growing list of reasons why unions are a bad idea in today's aviation environment.

Wow, what an elitist, attitude.
Diesel said it perfectly, the system will weed the weak out. Seniority gives somebody the right to upgrade, and demonstrate they can safely, professionally do the job.
Also, many of those airline captains you admiringly speak of would find it hard to accept merit based upgrades, simply because they came from seniority based systems.
I think you support merit based upgrades because of your own selfish reasons.

 

[FRLWD]

I'll support merit upgrades anytime over seniority upgrades based on safety alone. You can add this to my growing list of reasons why unions are a bad idea in today's aviation environment.

With large seniority lists, merit upgrades just aren't practical. Safety is the reason union carriers will fire a pilot who fails his upgrade twice. Alot of pilots can pass a checkride with flying colors and still be a CRM nightmare.

Safety is the reason unions have safety committees.

Safety is the reason unions have pro-stan committees.

Safety is the reason unions have supported CRM programs.

Safety is the reason unions have supported ASAP programs.

Safety is the reason unions have supported FOQA programs.

 

[FRLWD]

How many retired airline guys are sitting in the right seat now where you are that can fly circles around the guys in the left seat based on career experience alone?

A pilots attitude toward the safe operation of an aircraft is what makes a great captain. Career experience only brings a little seasoning to the table.

 

[jppt2000]

With large seniority lists, merit upgrades just aren't practical. Safety is the reason union carriers will fire a pilot who fails his upgrade twice. Alot of pilots can pass a checkride with flying colors and still be a CRM nightmare.

Safety is the reason unions have safety committees.

Safety is the reason unions have pro-stan committees.

Safety is the reason unions have supported CRM programs.

Safety is the reason unions have supported ASAP programs.

Safety is the reason unions have supported FOQA programs.

Eloquently written.

 

[Cavpilot]

Why is ANYONE giving this guy the time of day? Let this flamebait die.

 

[fischman]

Why is ANYONE giving this guy the time of day? Let this flamebait die.

It's fun