The NWA/DAL case is a wrap, what do you think?

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The case has been presented. Anyone want to opine on the most likely outcome?
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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Aren't the arbiters going to present their opinion tommorrow or the 20th?

I assume at a minimum it will be a 7 to 5 ratio.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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Yeah, I know that's when the decision will be issued... I remember there was mention of an opinion being presented the 20th or something to that effect.

All in all the date shuffling has confused me a bit... December 8th is the one that matters now.
 

ACL65PILOT

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Yes, that is the date that matters. I think that once the smoke clears and the lawyers talk to their parties, on may decided to negotiate again. If not DAL's list look good, but worst case a 7-5 ratio with some other things there and there. .
 

General Lee

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I think it will be a 7 to 5 ratio, after putting 300 of their pilots on the bottom. As a stand alone NWA was to furlough up to that many (as stated in the NWA memo shown on the stand), and that counts as career expectations. I just can't see DOH or a crazy dynamic list that has never happened before in a full SLI. We shall see I guess.....


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

michael707767

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I think it will be a 7 to 5 ratio, after putting 300 of their pilots on the bottom. As a stand alone NWA was to furlough up to that many (as stated in the NWA memo shown on the stand), and that counts as career expectations.

I think it should be a straight 7-5 ratio top to bottom.
 

NuGuy

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Heyas,

I expect the arbitrators to call in the principals around Friday or so, give them a "term sheet" to work off of, and lock them away for the weekend.

BOTH sides have already been told "you will NOT like what we give you", and so they'll bang heads over 3-5 days and try to hammer out a result.

Failing that... I'd expect a multi-tiered list, with a single methodology, but different twist depending on what part of the list you fall into. Might be a DOH, a ratio, or a ratio that simulates DOH.

A full or partial dynamic overlay covering 10-15 years will likely be a part of it, since Bloch REALLY wants to see how it works. Guys ACTUALLY at the hearings said that there was lots of "buzz" from the arbitrators about the dynamic list.

If no dynamic overlay, then a static "kicker" for the NWA guys, since the arbitration board admitted that they understand that attrition was very important.

No staples, top or bottom.

New merger, new rules.

Nu
 

PuffDriver

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Heyas,

I expect the arbitrators to call in the principals around Friday or so, give them a "term sheet" to work off of, and lock them away for the weekend.

BOTH sides have already been told "you will NOT like what we give you", and so they'll bang heads over 3-5 days and try to hammer out a result.

Failing that... I'd expect a multi-tiered list, with a single methodology, but different twist depending on what part of the list you fall into. Might be a DOH, a ratio, or a ratio that simulates DOH.

A full or partial dynamic overlay covering 10-15 years will likely be a part of it, since Bloch REALLY wants to see how it works. Guys ACTUALLY at the hearings said that there was lots of "buzz" from the arbitrators about the dynamic list.

If no dynamic overlay, then a static "kicker" for the NWA guys, since the arbitration board admitted that they understand that attrition was very important.

No staples, top or bottom.

New merger, new rules.

Nu
I would only say that one side has made a proposal to modify their original stance, so I don't necessarily believe that both parties were notified to correct their stance. Regardless, the Delta pilots seemed to agree that their method was to be used. They also spent a lot of time rebutting the impact, and false logic, and problems that the Delta stove pipe--allowing for dynamic NWA retirements--would have. Quite successfully, IMO. We'll see, I guess, and move on from there.
 

clippyrip

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I think it will be a 7 to 5 ratio, after putting 300 of their pilots on the bottom.
Might want to prepare for being upset if that is what you actually believe will be the result.

I'd throw my retirement down there will be no staple at the top or bottom.

My guess strait ratio. They will throw the NWA attrition away as a compensation for not comparing fleets. Our super premium to your pig with lipstick 757s you count as widebodies.
 

PuffDriver

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Might want to prepare for being upset if that is what you actually believe will be the result.

I'd throw my retirement down there will be no staple at the top or bottom.

My guess strait ratio. They will throw the NWA attrition away as a compensation for not comparing fleets. Our super premium to your pig with lipstick 757s you count as widebodies.
Good one. Keep them coming.
 

Full of LUV

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They will go for a two thirds happiness rate.....

Might want to prepare for being upset if that is what you actually believe will be the result.

I'd throw my retirement down there will be no staple at the top or bottom.

My guess strait ratio. They will throw the NWA attrition away as a compensation for not comparing fleets. Our super premium to your pig with lipstick 757s you count as widebodies.
To ensure at least 66% happiness rate, they will divide the list into thirds, with the middle third moving to the top, the bottom third moving to the middle and the top third going to the bottom. ALPA will finally eat its OLD for a change.......
 

michael707767

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My guess strait ratio. They will throw the NWA attrition away as a compensation for not comparing fleets. Our super premium to your pig with lipstick 757s you count as widebodies.
you know, even if you don't count the 767s as widebodies, in a ratio you would still have to put them in with the 757s. That means Delta has a total of 216 767/757 aircraft to the 71 757 aircraft at NW.

So I say fine. Let's do a ratio that puts the 777 and 764 pilots with the 747 and 330 pilots, then the 767 and 757 pilots all in a bunch then the narrowbodies.

For the captains, that would result in a ratio of 1.7NW pilots for every 1 delta pilot in the 777/764 and 747/330 captain portion. For the 767/757 pilots, it results in a ratio of 2.7 DL pilots to 1 NW pilot.

That would leave a pretty favorable ratio for the DL pilots on the narrowbody list.
 
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General Lee

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Might want to prepare for being upset if that is what you actually believe will be the result.

I'd throw my retirement down there will be no staple at the top or bottom.

My guess strait ratio. They will throw the NWA attrition away as a compensation for not comparing fleets. Our super premium to your pig with lipstick 757s you count as widebodies.
Hey, the DC9s are the bottom of the barrel at this company, and those 300 were supposed to be furloughed if you had stayed stand alone. It said it in the memo, that your MEC chair "couldn't recall."

Our lawyer wanted to ask more questions about the dynamic list, but Bloch told him he didn't have to. He said the other previous arbitrator was a "savant" when he told our lawyer not to continue asking questions. In other words, nothing more had to be asked, and our lawyer stated "then I don't have any more questions." (I can supply the quote if anyone wants it) The dynamic list has never been used before, and probably won't here, since we all have future retirements that will help all of our careers, on both sides. Nicelau only stapled on the top, since something was different with USAir East. Here, the only thing different is the potential to furlough prior to the DCC, and a lot of smaller planes brought to the company, all being paid the least.

And our 757 is a plane a lot of you can't get at your own company. You just sold 10 of them to Fedex, so even that fleet for you is shrinking. That is why you were going to furlough partly. Keep making fun of them, they just got a hefty raise too.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

nwaredtail

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Our lawyer wanted to ask more questions about the dynamic list, but Bloch told him he didn't have to. He said the other previous arbitrator was a "savant" when he told our lawyer not to continue asking questions.
So basically, the lead arbitrator told the DALPA attorney to shut the hell up. Interesting.
 

JohnDoe

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To ensure at least 66% happiness rate, they will divide the list into thirds, with the middle third moving to the top, the bottom third moving to the middle and the top third going to the bottom. ALPA will finally eat its OLD for a change.......


Now we're talkin'...I vote for that one. :beer:
 

ACL65PILOT

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It is quite apparent that you can read the transcripts however you want.
Min of a 7-5 ratio with some special items.
 

nwaredtail

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Not so fast my double breasted brotheren (and not in a good way)

When asked about the different category ratios under the Category ratio proposal:

Mr. Katz was questioning how
DAL's list "changed" ratios and was that fair...

..."heavily in favor of the Delta pilots from a ratio of
1.52 to 1 to 2.73 to 1 after ten years?

CHAIRMAN
BLOCH: I think we could fairly assume that we really
would not like that sort of result...."
 

General Lee

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So basically, the lead arbitrator told the DALPA attorney to shut the hell up. Interesting.
No, he said our guy really didn't have to ask any more questions about it. You know lawyers CAN ask as many questions as they want, unless the arbitrator thinks he has personally heard enough. I am glad you found it interesting, I don't think Bloch found the dynamic list interesting at all.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

General Lee

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Not so fast my double breasted brotheren (and not in a good way)

When asked about the different category ratios under the Category ratio proposal:

Mr. Katz was questioning how
DAL's list "changed" ratios and was that fair...

..."heavily in favor of the Delta pilots from a ratio of
1.52 to 1 to 2.73 to 1 after ten years?

CHAIRMAN
BLOCH: I think we could fairly assume that we really
would not like that sort of result...."
Yes, he will likely bring it down a "tad." What did he say about your dynamic approach? He didn't need to hear anymore questions about it, he had heard enough. And the other arbitrator had problems understanding if you wanted DOH, or the dynamic deal, or the dynamic deal if you couldn't get DOH. So confusing.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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