The NWA/DAL case is a wrap, what do you think?

[Scope out RJ's]

Another hillbilly that drinks and types. Back to the double wide, Billy Joe Jim Bob. Just sign in under your usual name, GL.

Good one!

You should sign under your usual name, Detoilet320!

Must be tough running to the library this late at night to use the computer since the trailer park shuts off the power this late.

 

[Truckdriver]

Ok, enought banter for the night. I do have a serious thought here. Does anyone think that the arbitration panel could possibly be influenced by parties outside the arbitration hearing? Ex. Delta management or ALPA national.

 

[Going2Baja]

Anyone....Anyone....Ferris.....Ferris????

(See Above Questions.)

Thanks - Baja.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Couple questions please:

1) Would someone please explain what a 7-5 ratio means?

2) Any guesses on base and or aircraft freezes?

3) Any word on NWA furloughees?

4) Is the decision binding?

1. Thanks - Baja.

1. Delta has roughly 7,000 pilots, NWA 5,000. Some think pilots should be integrated on a simple 7 to 5 ratio and be done with it.
2. Delta asked for a 3 year fence starting at October 31st with no bump, no flush.
3. Various documents were presented showing NWA is overstaffed by ~300 pilots. No furloughs are anticipated since Delta is understaffed and NWA has had some retirements and attrition (in rough numbers, no one seems to be talking furloughs from either side)
4. The arbitration decision is binding. NWA's counsel claims the decision over rides the job protection provisions of our pilot working agreement. Delta's Counsel said management would reject a decision based on a dynamic list. If rejected, the list would go back to arbitration. I have not done the research to fully believe the validity of either claim, but I doubt either side just made the allegation up without a basis for their statements.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Ok, enought banter for the night. I do have a serious thought here. Does anyone think that the arbitration panel could possibly be influenced by parties outside the arbitration hearing? Ex. Delta management or ALPA national.

Well, the allegation was made that Delta Management could reject an unworkable list and send us back to arbitration.

But, no, I don't think the Panel is influenced by outside forces. They want to create a fair list that works.

 

[nwaf16dude]

There was some talk in the last day's transcript about a four category (status/category) list with 100 or 173 "pullouts" for the senior NWA guys. It was significantly different from the DAL proposal in a lot of ways, most obviously that the DC-9 FO's weren't separated into their own category at the bottom. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's where my money is for the final outcome. Only questions would be exactly what are the four categories, and how many attrition slots do the NWA guys get at the top of the list(100, 173, more, less?) Probably just about equally distasteful to both groups, so probably the right answer.

 

[~~~^~~~]

NWAF16Dude:

That is nearly the most reasonable post a NWA pilot has written and I think you are very close to the end result.

Anyone know how many Professional Flight Engineers NWA has? Are there some pilots over age 62 on the property?

 

[aircowboy]

NWAF16Dude:

That is nearly the most reasonable post a NWA pilot has written and I think you are very close to the end result.

Anyone know how many Professional Flight Engineers NWA has? Are there some pilots over age 62 on the property?

There are 0 PFE's and very few Ropes left.

 

[PuffDriver]

There was some talk in the last day's transcript about a four category (status/category) list with 100 or 173 "pullouts" for the senior NWA guys. It was significantly different from the DAL proposal in a lot of ways, most obviously that the DC-9 FO's weren't separated into their own category at the bottom. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's where my money is for the final outcome. Only questions would be exactly what are the four categories, and how many attrition slots do the NWA guys get at the top of the list(100, 173, more, less?) Probably just about equally distasteful to both groups, so probably the right answer.

Probably a pretty good WAG.

 

[Fly4hire]

Probably a pretty good WAG.

Possibly... Million dollar question is whether it would be 4 groups based on DOH, ratio, and whether or not dynamic overlay is used. I agree with Nu that we will be talking again before the 8th. Hope it's something we can all live with...

 

[~~~^~~~]

I for one hope they don't negotiate a resolution. Things appear to be shaping up as better than status quo for NWA and a loss to status quo for Delta. I don't see how ALPA can do that without a claimed breach of DFR and probably litigation.

Bloch does not have a duty to the Delta pilots, ALPA does. ALPA can't touch this, not if they are smart. Throughout this ALPA, particularly Delta's MEC, has been very smart. I don't expect anyone to blink, regardless of individual pride over "reaching an agreement."

 

[DTW320]

Things appear to be shaping up as better than status quo for NWA and a loss to status quo for Delta. I don't see how ALPA can do that without a claimed breach of DFR and probably litigation.

So, you believe that if DALPA doesn't like the award, they will litigate? Or do you mean that if a negotiated settlement is reached that results in a loss of status quo for Dalpa, DALPA/ALPA could be sued for breach of DFR?

 

[nwaredtail]

I for one hope they don't negotiate a resolution. Things appear to be shaping up as better than status quo for NWA and a loss to status quo for Delta. I don't see how ALPA can do that without a claimed breach of DFR and probably litigation.

Bloch does not have a duty to the Delta pilots, ALPA does. ALPA can't touch this, not if they are smart. Throughout this ALPA, particularly Delta's MEC, has been very smart. I don't expect anyone to blink, regardless of individual pride over "reaching an agreement."

I say stick to your guns, an absolutely brilliant idea.

 

[nwaredtail]

So, you believe that if DALPA doesn't like the award, they will litigate? Or do you mean that if a negotiated settlement is reached that results in a loss of status quo for Dalpa, DALPA/ALPA could be sued for breach of DFR?

He means that the absolutely arrogant Delta pilots on this forum have absolutely no idea what is really going on. There will be no litigation because the award will be somewhere in between. Senior guys won't really care, middle guys may care but only some will push it, junior guys will really care, but the numbers aren't there to make a difference.

 

[PuffDriver]

I say stick to your guns, an absolutely brilliant idea.

Good one. Keep them coming.

 

[PuffDriver]

He means that the absolutely arrogant Delta pilots on this forum have absolutely no idea what is really going on. There will be no litigation because the award will be somewhere in between. Senior guys won't really care, middle guys may care but only some will push it, junior guys will really care, but the numbers aren't there to make a difference.

Good one. Keep them coming.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Red,

Fins only knows how to sue. He was/is one of the original RJDC SCABS that tried to sue their way onto the dal sl. When they got their asses handed to them, he slinked away and applied, got hired, and even though acl65plt knows who he is, begged him to not reveal his name. Because he knows that had his name been revealed he would have never made it off probation(If he even is off yet). His anonimity on this board allows him to banter with his new found dal brothers(g.lee,puff, 73pylt,scope etc). These same angry(rightfully so) brothers would cut his nuts off if his true name was ever revealed. It will be interesting once this is all said and done and we have access to the dalpa webboard if we will be able to identify some of these yahoos. I especially like fngs that think we owe them thanks for the payraise. Looking forward after soc that some fng fo brings that up in the cockpit. The look on his face when the reserve shows up to replace him will be priceless. PS are you on for turkey day, and if so will see you at the pad.

He means that the absolutely arrogant Delta pilots on this forum have absolutely no idea what is really going on. There will be no litigation because the award will be somewhere in between. Senior guys won't really care, middle guys may care but only some will push it, junior guys will really care, but the numbers aren't there to make a difference.

 

[nwaredtail]

Red,

Fins only knows how to sue. He was/is one of the original RJDC SCABS that tried to sue their way onto the dal sl. When they got their asses handed to them, he slinked away and applied, got hired, and even though acl65plt knows who he is, begged him to not reveal his name. Because he knows that had his name been revealed he would have never made it off probation(If he even is off yet). His anonimity on this board allows him to banter with his new found dal brothers(g.lee,puff, 73pylt,scope etc). These same angry(rightfully so) brothers would cut his nuts off if his true name was ever revealed. It will be interesting once this is all said and done and we have access to the dalpa webboard if we will be able to identify some of these yahoos. I especially like fngs that think we owe them thanks for the payraise. Looking forward after soc that some fng fo brings that up in the cockpit. The look on his face when the reserve shows up to replace him will be priceless. PS are you on for turkey day, and if so will see you at the pad.

Yup, but I haven't flown since 10/31. Getting a little bored, thus trying to haggle with the ADD FI DAL boys. See ya there.

 

[PuffDriver]

Red,

Fins only knows how to sue. He was/is one of the original RJDC SCABS that tried to sue their way onto the dal sl. When they got their asses handed to them, he slinked away and applied, got hired, and even though acl65plt knows who he is, begged him to not reveal his name. Because he knows that had his name been revealed he would have never made it off probation(If he even is off yet). His anonimity on this board allows him to banter with his new found dal brothers(g.lee,puff, 73pylt,scope etc). These same angry(rightfully so) brothers would cut his nuts off if his true name was ever revealed. It will be interesting once this is all said and done and we have access to the dalpa webboard if we will be able to identify some of these yahoos. I especially like fngs that think we owe them thanks for the payraise. Looking forward after soc that some fng fo brings that up in the cockpit. The look on his face when the reserve shows up to replace him will be priceless. PS are you on for turkey day, and if so will see you at the pad.

Ah, "crashpad lovers" enjoying a turkey and then a tryptophan nap.

1) You got a raise because of the Delta pilots. It's a fact.

2) I know who fins is. You are quoting the wrong person. it was not acl65. It was somebody else whose word I would not take for anything

3) Fins is off probation. He served his sentence. people at Delta know who he is, and he is welcomed by us. That includes NWA pilots now, BTW. You are not getting rid of him, and I triple dog dare you to make a public attempt to do so.

4) I am not an FNG, and you owe me a no thanks for your raise. We both know, and that's good enough

5) You two enjoy your crashpad date.

5) When you replace an f/o, do you really think that the replaced is going to hang around for 2 hours for the reserve to show up so that you can see the "look on his face"? Or are you just another tough talking internet keyboard punk?

 

[PuffDriver]

Yup, but I haven't flown since 10/31. Getting a little bored, thus trying to haggle with the ADD FI DAL boys. See ya there.

"Trying" being the key word. Failing miserably is more like it.
Alligator mouth, hummingbird a$$. They don't go together well.

 

[General Lee]

He means that the absolutely arrogant Delta pilots on this forum have absolutely no idea what is really going on. There will be no litigation because the award will be somewhere in between. Senior guys won't really care, middle guys may care but only some will push it, junior guys will really care, but the numbers aren't there to make a difference.

Have no idea what is going on? Just read the transcripts, and it clears up. Capt W. did a great job of showing how a dynamic list would screw things up for every Delta pilot, using examples of how a furlough would cause a mess, and how Delta itself would likely say no to it for expense reasons. And, it has NEVER been done before. And BTW, thanks for that A330 flight plan from PDX to ICN. Wow, who came up with that piece of work? It showed us and the arbitrators who we are dealing with. I don't recall Katz saying anything else about it after we brought that up. It helped cement our position on the 76ER vs the A330 alright...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Believe me you would be going after the wrong person on the RJDC mess is you go after FIN.

Truly a stand up guy. We have all been on the wrong side of the issue at one time or another, he is no different. He left when he saw where it was headed, made his amends and as Puff stated is welcomed by DALPA and the company. They know who he is, and that is that. There is no head hunting here. They realize his value and is an asset given past and current experience.
In essence let it go. The one you want still works for CMR.

 

[cactusboy53]

Best of luck to all NW & DAL pilots. It sounds like cooler heads are prevailing in this game.

Have any of you bothered to call FO Bradford (that's USAPA El Presidente to you mister!) for his opinion? It could be good for a laugh.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

So, you believe that if DALPA doesn't like the award, they will litigate? Or do you mean that if a negotiated settlement is reached that results in a loss of status quo for Dalpa, DALPA/ALPA could be sued for breach of DFR?

Litigate? Probably not. Sued, naah. We'll just take the advice of your girlpal nwaredtail:

I could care less about that. If the award is anywhere closes to what y'all asked for, then y'all set yourselves up for that.

Checkmate junior.
NEXT!

 

[Truckdriver]

Looking forward after soc that some fng fo brings that up in the cockpit. The look on his face when the reserve shows up to replace him will be priceless.

What will be even more priceless is seeing you get a few weeks of unpaid vacation for refusing to fly with someone because of a personal conflict.

 

[General Lee]

Red,

Fins only knows how to sue. He was/is one of the original RJDC SCABS that tried to sue their way onto the dal sl. When they got their asses handed to them, he slinked away and applied, got hired, and even though acl65plt knows who he is, begged him to not reveal his name. Because he knows that had his name been revealed he would have never made it off probation(If he even is off yet). His anonimity on this board allows him to banter with his new found dal brothers(g.lee,puff, 73pylt,scope etc). These same angry(rightfully so) brothers would cut his nuts off if his true name was ever revealed. It will be interesting once this is all said and done and we have access to the dalpa webboard if we will be able to identify some of these yahoos. I especially like fngs that think we owe them thanks for the payraise. Looking forward after soc that some fng fo brings that up in the cockpit. The look on his face when the reserve shows up to replace him will be priceless. PS are you on for turkey day, and if so will see you at the pad.

When a chief pilot comes to the plane wondering why you are replacing an FO, will you be wearing your hat? I think you better....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I guess he will have that right at the CA. That is fine, I probably will not talk about it, but then it will be well in the the past.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I especially like fngs that think we owe them thanks for the payraise. Looking forward after soc that some fng fo brings that up in the cockpit. The look on his face when the reserve shows up to replace him will be priceless.

When you get back from that 30 day unpaid vacation, let us know how good it felt.

PS are you on for turkey day, and if so will see you at the pad.

Turkey day at the pad?:laugh: Who's the real FNG puke, ****************************** bag?

 

[DTW320]

When a chief pilot comes to the plane wondering why you are replacing an FO, will you be wearing your hat? I think you better....

Bye Bye--General Lee

Trust me on this.....not everyone wears their hat in the cockpit....like you do. Sorry to break that to ya...

 

[General Lee]

Trust me on this.....not everyone wears their hat in the cockpit....like you do. Sorry to break that to ya...

I think he would be in the jetway explaining it, not in the cockpit. Go hide in the cockpit, will ya?

Bye Bye--General Lee