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The NetJets Scab list threat...
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Hogprint
If you aint Cav...
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2002
- Posts
- 695
Jolimon,
I think El is tugg'n your chain a bit.
When I was hired on five years ago, you saw all the other Fracs in the FBO, everyone greeted one another. It was like we knew we were all in the same boat. We were not at the majors, maybe building time to go, but point was everyone compared notes and asked how things were coming with contracts or whatever.
It doesn't seem that way anymore. I think we all are probably more alike than not, and some of us will probably be on the same team when this industry shakes out and realigns.
Fly safe out there boys!
I think El is tugg'n your chain a bit.
When I was hired on five years ago, you saw all the other Fracs in the FBO, everyone greeted one another. It was like we knew we were all in the same boat. We were not at the majors, maybe building time to go, but point was everyone compared notes and asked how things were coming with contracts or whatever.
It doesn't seem that way anymore. I think we all are probably more alike than not, and some of us will probably be on the same team when this industry shakes out and realigns.
Fly safe out there boys!
El Chupacabra
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
- Posts
- 527
We asked our management to increase our day rate for overtime. We are now happy with the pay we receive if we work past our 7 days on. This happened within 1 month of our request. We were able as a pilot group to talk to the CEO directly. I can't say it will always be like this but it has been so far.
Jolimon said:
Let me comment in the same tone that you have used to alienate the NJA crowd.
So.....already you are understaffed ! Maybe the honeymoon is over ?
With union representation, and a contract in place, these issues would have already been addressed.
Goes without saying that employee morale must really suck, what with a pilot shortage and forced overtime.
Just because you are disgruntled with your lot in life, don't whine to the rest of your industry brothers.
We have been smart enough over "here", to avert these problems through collective bargaining.
Too bad you are so naive. And stupid.
BTW, hope you never run afoul of management, and get canned without any recourse. If you do, you have no one to blame but yourself, for not having the forsight to hire on with "our perfect organization".
Don't know how all this sounded to you Jolimon, but if obnoxious doesn't come to mind, then you have missed my point.
Cheers.
CapnVegetto
The Prince of all Saiyans
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2005
- Posts
- 1,981
I've got a question. NJI obviously is treated right, and sees no need for a union, but NJ very much needs one, as management is royally f--king the pilot group over. My question is, how did the two get to be so different? Why is NJI paid well and treated right, and NJ isn't? What happened? Didn't NJ used to be a fairly good paying, decent job? How did it get to be so bad?
Someone please explain this to a non-NJ guy.
Someone please explain this to a non-NJ guy.
wolfpackpilot
Diehard Republican
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2005
- Posts
- 899
Allow me to comment on several posts at once.
I also wonder how it is that you speak for the ENTIRE pilot group at NJI when you say, "We, at NJI HATE unions!". I certainly don't claim to speak for anyone but myself on this board. Are you sure that EVERY pilot over there detests unions like that? Or is it more of a knee-jerk reaction to this single-carrier thing?
Once again, we speak for ourselves, as individuals; and I stringently adhere to the non-union views of my colleague. I can unequivocally say there is no foreseeable situation that would ever lead the NJI pilots to unionize. We are a very content and happy group of professional pilots.
Now when I have everything I want in a CBA and all management asks is that we drop that suit, how many people do you think will be willing to vote NO on the contract just so we can pursue a lawsuit that will take yrs to settle and not put another nickel in my bank account. And yes bring in possibly hundreds of anti-union persons into the seniority list?
And there in lies the smoking gun. I cannot believe you NJA pilots are so blatantly advertising the only reason your filing a single carrier lawsuit is for negotiating capital. You cannot say on one hand, “Oh I have nothing against NJI pilots personally” and then say on the other, “Screw em, if that lawsuit gets me what I want, I don’t care if we wreck their deal.” And this is why your support among the aviation community is severely lack-luster. No one respects a person who uses others for personal gain.
Did you ever think that if WE drop the Teamsters our same management would treat YOU worse since there is no longer the treat of Teamsters being on the property.
You obviously have forgotten or refuse to acknowledge why NJI was started in the first place. Furthermore, there is no threat of the Teamsters ever being on my property as long as the pilots here now, stay here. And if you haven’t heard, we don’t lose pilots by the hundreds year after year. For some reason they stay.
If you have a place like Citation Shares or Jetblue where the management has character and leads by example then maybe not having a union is more acceptable.
Insert: “Net Jets International” in above statement. My management team is second to none.
How could a group of fractional pilots not stay in or near TEB? That is like saying strippers do not smoke.
Now that’s one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a while. Would you like an interview with NJI, we hire people with character and a sense of humor.
I also wonder how it is that you speak for the ENTIRE pilot group at NJI when you say, "We, at NJI HATE unions!". I certainly don't claim to speak for anyone but myself on this board. Are you sure that EVERY pilot over there detests unions like that? Or is it more of a knee-jerk reaction to this single-carrier thing?
Once again, we speak for ourselves, as individuals; and I stringently adhere to the non-union views of my colleague. I can unequivocally say there is no foreseeable situation that would ever lead the NJI pilots to unionize. We are a very content and happy group of professional pilots.
Now when I have everything I want in a CBA and all management asks is that we drop that suit, how many people do you think will be willing to vote NO on the contract just so we can pursue a lawsuit that will take yrs to settle and not put another nickel in my bank account. And yes bring in possibly hundreds of anti-union persons into the seniority list?
And there in lies the smoking gun. I cannot believe you NJA pilots are so blatantly advertising the only reason your filing a single carrier lawsuit is for negotiating capital. You cannot say on one hand, “Oh I have nothing against NJI pilots personally” and then say on the other, “Screw em, if that lawsuit gets me what I want, I don’t care if we wreck their deal.” And this is why your support among the aviation community is severely lack-luster. No one respects a person who uses others for personal gain.
Did you ever think that if WE drop the Teamsters our same management would treat YOU worse since there is no longer the treat of Teamsters being on the property.
You obviously have forgotten or refuse to acknowledge why NJI was started in the first place. Furthermore, there is no threat of the Teamsters ever being on my property as long as the pilots here now, stay here. And if you haven’t heard, we don’t lose pilots by the hundreds year after year. For some reason they stay.
If you have a place like Citation Shares or Jetblue where the management has character and leads by example then maybe not having a union is more acceptable.
Insert: “Net Jets International” in above statement. My management team is second to none.
How could a group of fractional pilots not stay in or near TEB? That is like saying strippers do not smoke.
Now that’s one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a while. Would you like an interview with NJI, we hire people with character and a sense of humor.
El Chupacabra
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
- Posts
- 527
Now when I have everything I want in a CBA and all management asks is that we drop that suit, how many people do you think will be willing to vote NO on the contract just so we can pursue a lawsuit that will take yrs to settle and not put another nickel in my bank account. And yes bring in possibly hundreds of anti-union persons into the seniority list?
And there in lies the smoking gun. I cannot believe you NJA pilots are so blatantly advertising the only reason your filing a single carrier lawsuit is for negotiating capital. You cannot say on one hand, “Oh I have nothing against NJI pilots personally” and then say on the other, “Screw em, if that lawsuit gets me what I want, I don’t care if we wreck their deal.” And this is why your support among the aviation community is severely lack-luster. No one respects a person who uses others for personal gain.
And there in lies the smoking gun. I cannot believe you NJA pilots are so blatantly advertising the only reason your filing a single carrier lawsuit is for negotiating capital. You cannot say on one hand, “Oh I have nothing against NJI pilots personally” and then say on the other, “Screw em, if that lawsuit gets me what I want, I don’t care if we wreck their deal.” And this is why your support among the aviation community is severely lack-luster. No one respects a person who uses others for personal gain.
There are two sides to every lawsuit. The reason management denies the FFH from us that they give to other parts of the company is for BARGAINING CAPITAL. 5 years ago we reached an agreement for this benefit which you have been enjoying. One man vetoed it while saying, "Why should I give them that now when contract negotiations will begin in a few months. I will use it as a bargaining chip."
This while allowing FFH on your side of the company.... A side which would not exist if we had not allowed an exception to Scope. We trusted them to treat all fairly. Trust apparently misplaced.
This thing they deny us while advertising in trade publications this benefit for other parts of the company. You see it is management that is using other people for gain.
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Suen1843 says: Leaving the single-carrier issue aside, you should be supporting these pilots. Yes..they are way underpaid. Yes...they didn't get a very good T/A late last year. Yess....on and on. But, they are trying to do something about it. Take away the radical voices of NJA (and they are very few but very vocal) and you have a great bunch of guys who just want to make a decent living while doing something we all love to do...fly the airplanes
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A very good post, 1843. However, the reason I am against the union is BECAUSE I support the pilots. I feel the union has been leading the pilots to ruin. Look at what they have done so far, after how many years? In other words, the union is the wrong answer to the right question.
___________________________________________________________________
A very good post, 1843. However, the reason I am against the union is BECAUSE I support the pilots. I feel the union has been leading the pilots to ruin. Look at what they have done so far, after how many years? In other words, the union is the wrong answer to the right question.
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