The logic of relative seniority

[AFcitrus]

EXACTLY. Beyond pay, that fourth stripe is purely ego. If an AT captain takes a pay RAISE to be a SW FO, then any complaint is purely ego-driven.

It's not about an ego my friend. It' s about hard work, making career decision that involved risk, and continuing to maintain the career expectations that one has earned. Career expectations are not about money (as has been noted in previous arbitration awards). They are about seat position and bidding expectations.

Many at AT could have left years ago to pursue SWA (with 737 types in hand). Instead they made concious, well thought out decisions to take a risk and stay at AT to make them the best airline they could be. The reward would be quicker upgrades and better bid position sooner, and most important - higher senority should AT ever merge with another carrier. The sacrifice would be pay, status, and probably some level of job security.

Now that someday has come and it appears the AT pilots' risks may have paid off. They will be integrated far ahead of where they would have been had they left years ago for SWA. They took the risk, just as an investor takes the risk in a business deal. To try to take away the rewards of that risk would be a travesty.

I don't know how this will turn out but I do know a few things:
- This will be decided by the Merger committees for the respective airlines. Failing that an arbitrator(s) will make an unbiased decision based on all the information that both sides present, precedents set forth in previous arbitrations, and federal law.
- Regardless of how this turns out I will bust my butt to help make SW a better company than when arrived.
- We will all enjoy the fruits of an incredible merged airline.

 

[cactusboy53]

Relative seniority rewards the lessers of the airline industry (VA, Republic, AWA, etc.) at the expense of the experienced in the industry (AAA, UAL, CAL, DAL)

Check it out buuuuddddy! None of the SWAL or Air Tranny guys swallowed your bait. Go peddle your "Gold Standard" and DOH w/ C&R's somewhere else, junior. No one's buying what you are selling today (or any other day).

 

[Ty Webb]

EXACTLY. Beyond pay, that fourth stripe is purely ego. If an AT captain takes a pay RAISE to be a SW FO, then any complaint is purely ego-driven.

First, AirTran pay is likely to increase greatly after this weeks' mediated negotiation session, so the argument of AirTran CA versus SWA FO pay is soon to be a moot point.

Second, on the subject of being a Captain versus FO . . . . Sorry, but it is about more than pay and ego. I did my time in the right seat . . . . Some Captains are great to fly with, some can make a four-day seem like a week in purgatory. I'll take my chances flying with the Captain I see in the mirror when I shave, thank you.

And last, you guys who are ignoring precedent from recent SLI arbitrations and have convinced yourselves that an arbitrator is going to displace 800 AirTran Captains are going to be the most upset when the SLI happens, because you have developed expectations that are not based on the reality of recent SLI arbitration.

 

[shootr]

I did my time in the right seat.

Dude, that says it all. Don't suppose there're some SWA FO's who did their time in the right seat and have just as much 121/military PIC as some of you AT CA's? I agree that something fair will be negotiated or it'll go to arbitration but you guys who say SWA guys are arrogant and then post something like that can't see yourselves.

shootr

 

[Ty Webb]

You're misinterpreting what I said. My point was that I remember what it was like being an FO . . . . and it's not the same as CA.

 

[madjack]

So do we suppose it is fair if a 6 year AAI CP gets a huge pay raise and goes ahead of a 6 + year SWA FO?? What is fair and equitable for the SWA FO in this case??

 

[Ty Webb]

So do we suppose it is fair if a 6 year AAI CP gets a huge pay raise and goes ahead of a 6 + year SWA FO?? What is fair and equitable for the SWA FO in this case??

The AAI Captain is continuing what he was doing the day before the merger, he's just now paid the SWA CBA rate for his work.

To try to remove him from a Captain seat to make a "new" captain seat for a SWA FO would be a textbook definition of a windfall . . . taking from one person and giving it to another. I don't think it's likely to happen.

 

[madjack]

Ty,

But in your example the SWA FO loses seniority while the AAI captain gets a huge pay raise...again that does not seem fair and equitable to the SWA FO...

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

The AAI Captain is continuing what he was doing the day before the merger, he's just now paid the SWA CBA rate for his work.

To try to remove him from a Captain seat to make a "new" captain seat for a SWA FO would be a textbook definition of a windfall . . . taking from one person and giving it to another. I don't think it's likely to happen.

Textbook definition of seniority is more like it.

 

[jonjuan]

Ty,

But in your example the SWA FO loses seniority while the AAI captain gets a huge pay raise...again that does not seem fair and equitable to the SWA FO...

Doesn't lose any seniority. 60% F/O to 60% F/O is keeping seniority exactly where it was. NOTHING changes for that F/O, nothing.