The JetBlue ALPA drive has officially started.

[jayme]

As you are so quick to point out....the pension debacle at USAir was not the pilot group's decision, but a 9th hour back door deal. National should have known better.

A350

What do you mean "National should have known better?"

What should National have done?

 

[Splert]

Splert.....

Yeah.....$28,800 a year from the government instead of a $1.5-2.5 million lump sum is a better deal all right! The way our government spends money....I ain't counting on that either.

That verbiage is in there....but the company has never done that. They pay to equal everyone up and pay the profit sharing....even when we lost money and fuel was $4/gal and going to the moon.

I am not defending some of the things that management does....but it will take a whole lot to make me change my mind about ALPA.

A350

A normal retirement will net no less than $750,000 without ever reaching retirement age at Airways. Man you got dorked. Can I please get dorked like that too?

The company has never done that? What are you smoking? Our Health Care plan changed from 33% share of cost to 37% and that after canceling the health plan and mixing the benefits around. Just because the company did not change the name of Care Plan 1 doesn't mean it wasn't terminated and replaced with a new and improved Care Plan 1.

Also the guy who flew the first revenue flight for JetBlue had his health plan TERMINATED.

CSPP goner.

New Hire stock options - goner too!

What are you going to say when next year the Plus Plan is terminated? Oh I know: "They actually improved it".

Dude...every other pilot group in our peers set earns at least a 10% retirement not counting profit sharing. We are not 2.7% behind we are in the neighborhood of 8.5% behind peer set. With a peer set retirement we should be in the range of 13% 401k and B-fund PLUS profit sharing.

BTW, PS is based upon Operating Income not NET INCOME. When is the last time JetBlue had a operating loss?

Pilots!

Geez.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Splert.....

Yeah.....$28,800 a year from the government instead of a $1.5-2.5 million lump sum is a better deal all right! The way our government spends money....I ain't counting on that either.

That verbiage is in there....but the company has never done that. They pay to equal everyone up and pay the profit sharing....even when we lost money and fuel was $4/gal and going to the moon.

I am not defending some of the things that management does....but it will take a whole lot to make me change my mind about ALPA.

A350

Just who got you that pension?

 

[A350]

The same people who gave it away.....

A350

 

[Splert]

How pension plans end

• When an employer ends a pension plan
• When PBGC terminates a pension plan
• How you will know if your plan is ending
• Additional benefits after a plan ends

When an employer ends a pension plan
Employers can end a pension plan through a process called “plan termination.” There are two ways an employer can terminate its pension plan.
The employer can end the plan in a standard termination but only after showing PBGC that the plan has enough money to pay all benefits owed to participants. The plan must either purchase an annuity from an insurance company (which will provide you with lifetime benefits when you retire) or, if your plan allows, issue one lump-sum payment that covers your entire benefit. Before purchasing your annuity, your plan administrator must give you an advance notice that identifies the insurance company (or companies) that your employer may select to provide the annuity. PBGC’s guarantee ends when your employer purchases your annuity or gives you the lump-sum payment.
If the plan is not fully funded, the employer may apply for a distress termination if the employer is in financial distress. To do so, however, the employer must prove to a bankruptcy court or to PBGC that the employer cannot remain in business unless the plan is terminated. If the application is granted, PBGC will take over the plan as trustee and pay plan benefits, up to the legal limits, using plan assets and PBGC guarantee funds.
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When PBGC terminates a pension plan
Under certain circumstances, PBGC may take action on its own to end a pension plan. Most terminations initiated by PBGC occur when PBGC determines that plan termination is needed to protect the interests of plan participants or of the PBGC insurance program. PBGC can do so if, for example, a plan does not have enough money to pay benefits currently due.
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How you will know if your plan is ending
If your employer wants to end the plan, your plan administrator must notify you in writing that your plan is ending. You must get this notice, called the Notice of Intent to Terminate, at least 60 days before the "termination" date. If PBGC is terminating the plan, we notify the plan administrator and often publish a notice about our action in local and national newspapers.
In a standard termination, you should receive a second letter describing the benefits you will receive, called the Notice of Plan Benefits, generally no later than six months after the date proposed for your plan’s termination.
In a distress termination, or a termination initiated by PBGC, our communication with you begins when we take over your plan as trustee. Initially we will provide you with general information about the pension insurance program and our guarantees. We will be able to provide more specific information about your benefits after we have had an opportunity to review the plan’s records, assets, benefit liabilities, and your participation in the plan.
^ Top
Additional benefits after a plan ends
You cannot earn additional benefits after the plan ends.

 

[Flyer1015]

When's the last time you heard of an "instant termination" at a union airline?

I have, at our airline. Crap happens.

 

[jayme]

And do you think that employee would have fared better or worse without a union? How about all the other guys whose jobs were protected?

 

[BeachBummer]

I have, at our airline. Crap happens.

Union or not, people do some dumbA$$stuff. The union will not save you from utter stupidity.

honest mistake? yea, you'll keep you job. Blatantly dangerouse: you'll probably be fired, and stay gone.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

The same people who gave it away.....

A350

Let me guess you have recall as well at an airline? Who got you that recall(big guess)? Give it up if you don't like that. Ahhhh

 

[A350]

Questioning my integrity are you? My wagon is hitched to this horse.

Recall? Resigned already and wouldn't go back even if I could.

A350

 

[UpNDownGuy]

The pension giveaway at USAir is directly your fault A350. You want to blame someone, look in the mirror. You elected the gutless reps who gave it away. You allowed the MEC to change your contract without a vote. Did you object at every LEC meeting about the process, or maybe you didn't even go to a meeting?

You have extraordinary balls to point at ALPA as the problem, when you personally are the reason the pension was surrendered. If you involvement in the process is limited to signing an application when you're hired, you got what you deserve. Stop your whining.

 

[A350]

The arrogance in your post is stunning....especially in light of the fact that you can place blame on an individual whose participation or lack therof you have no way of verifying. A lot of IFS in your post.

The problem with ALPA is the process....the fact that all of what transpired at USAirways happened under the watchful eyes of ALPA National should show you just how flawed the system is.

Meetings that were closed to discuss confidential information....giveaways without pilot voting, lawyers provided by ALPA to analyze contract provisions that were given millions post contract ratification, yep....all my fault.

Whe USAirways furloughed, Mesa went on a hiring binge. One union pilot out, one union pilot in. More my fault.

When the USAirways pension went bye bye....so did DAL, NWA, and UAL. More my fault.

Typical ALPA supporter....blame an individual that you are trying to convince that a union with a broken model is the salvation to a safe, happy career. If you guys spent half the time working on fixing the systemic issues at ALPA as you do pointing fingers at everyone else, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

ALPA has good qualities....but to claim they are the cure all for the plight of the airline pilot in this country is laughable.

A350

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Questioning my integrity are you? My wagon is hitched to this horse.

Recall? Resigned already and wouldn't go back even if I could.

A350

Integrity? Not following. Just saying a lot of the anti-Alpa folks have recall rights. And many of those anti-alpa folks are going to excersie those recall rights when they determine when the correct time to return to former employer. Do you see hypocrisy?

 

[coogebeachhotel]

The arrogance in your post is stunning....especially in light of the fact that you can place blame on an individual whose participation or lack therof you have no way of verifying. A lot of IFS in your post.

The problem with ALPA is the process....the fact that all of what transpired at USAirways happened under the watchful eyes of ALPA National should show you just how flawed the system is.

Meetings that were closed to discuss confidential information....giveaways without pilot voting, lawyers provided by ALPA to analyze contract provisions that were given millions post contract ratification, yep....all my fault.

Whe USAirways furloughed, Mesa went on a hiring binge. One union pilot out, one union pilot in. More my fault.

When the USAirways pension went bye bye....so did DAL, NWA, and UAL. More my fault.

Typical ALPA supporter....blame an individual that you are trying to convince that a union with a broken model is the salvation to a safe, happy career. If you guys spent half the time working on fixing the systemic issues at ALPA as you do pointing fingers at everyone else, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

ALPA has good qualities....but to claim they are the cure all for the plight of the airline pilot in this country is laughable.

A350

News flash. USAIR management drove that company into the ground. Did you know that without giving up pension there would have been no government bailout for Airways? That was a stipulation as part of the airline bailout. You know what also. The aircraft leasing companies got stiffed as well. Offered half price for the lease rates. Many many other venders got screwed when contracts were re-writen overnight. Can you imagine what a USAIR contract would look like today with no union? HA

 

[A350]

I see your point....however, many ALPA supporters have recall rights as well....do you see hypocrisy there also?

I am anti-ALPA because I have lived it for 20 years. Many of the ALPA supporters vilify those who aren't in their camp...in other words if you aren't for ALPA you are a moron who is unworthy of acknowlegement. See the previous post.

The situation at JB is not perfect....but it is a work in progress. ALPA has been this way for the entire 20 years I was a member and IMO has no chance of success because of its structure.

I respect the choice to vote one way or another. My only hope is that when the will of the group has been determined and the dust settles.....that all remember we are all JetBlue pilots....

A350