The JetBlue ALPA drive has officially started.

[UpNDownGuy]

The pension giveaway at USAir is directly your fault A350. You want to blame someone, look in the mirror. You elected the gutless reps who gave it away. You allowed the MEC to change your contract without a vote. Did you object at every LEC meeting about the process, or maybe you didn't even go to a meeting?

You have extraordinary balls to point at ALPA as the problem, when you personally are the reason the pension was surrendered. If you involvement in the process is limited to signing an application when you're hired, you got what you deserve. Stop your whining.

 

[A350]

The arrogance in your post is stunning....especially in light of the fact that you can place blame on an individual whose participation or lack therof you have no way of verifying. A lot of IFS in your post.

The problem with ALPA is the process....the fact that all of what transpired at USAirways happened under the watchful eyes of ALPA National should show you just how flawed the system is.

Meetings that were closed to discuss confidential information....giveaways without pilot voting, lawyers provided by ALPA to analyze contract provisions that were given millions post contract ratification, yep....all my fault.

Whe USAirways furloughed, Mesa went on a hiring binge. One union pilot out, one union pilot in. More my fault.

When the USAirways pension went bye bye....so did DAL, NWA, and UAL. More my fault.

Typical ALPA supporter....blame an individual that you are trying to convince that a union with a broken model is the salvation to a safe, happy career. If you guys spent half the time working on fixing the systemic issues at ALPA as you do pointing fingers at everyone else, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

ALPA has good qualities....but to claim they are the cure all for the plight of the airline pilot in this country is laughable.

A350

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Questioning my integrity are you? My wagon is hitched to this horse.

Recall? Resigned already and wouldn't go back even if I could.

A350

Integrity? Not following. Just saying a lot of the anti-Alpa folks have recall rights. And many of those anti-alpa folks are going to excersie those recall rights when they determine when the correct time to return to former employer. Do you see hypocrisy?

 

[coogebeachhotel]

The arrogance in your post is stunning....especially in light of the fact that you can place blame on an individual whose participation or lack therof you have no way of verifying. A lot of IFS in your post.

The problem with ALPA is the process....the fact that all of what transpired at USAirways happened under the watchful eyes of ALPA National should show you just how flawed the system is.

Meetings that were closed to discuss confidential information....giveaways without pilot voting, lawyers provided by ALPA to analyze contract provisions that were given millions post contract ratification, yep....all my fault.

Whe USAirways furloughed, Mesa went on a hiring binge. One union pilot out, one union pilot in. More my fault.

When the USAirways pension went bye bye....so did DAL, NWA, and UAL. More my fault.

Typical ALPA supporter....blame an individual that you are trying to convince that a union with a broken model is the salvation to a safe, happy career. If you guys spent half the time working on fixing the systemic issues at ALPA as you do pointing fingers at everyone else, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

ALPA has good qualities....but to claim they are the cure all for the plight of the airline pilot in this country is laughable.

A350

News flash. USAIR management drove that company into the ground. Did you know that without giving up pension there would have been no government bailout for Airways? That was a stipulation as part of the airline bailout. You know what also. The aircraft leasing companies got stiffed as well. Offered half price for the lease rates. Many many other venders got screwed when contracts were re-writen overnight. Can you imagine what a USAIR contract would look like today with no union? HA

 

[A350]

I see your point....however, many ALPA supporters have recall rights as well....do you see hypocrisy there also?

I am anti-ALPA because I have lived it for 20 years. Many of the ALPA supporters vilify those who aren't in their camp...in other words if you aren't for ALPA you are a moron who is unworthy of acknowlegement. See the previous post.

The situation at JB is not perfect....but it is a work in progress. ALPA has been this way for the entire 20 years I was a member and IMO has no chance of success because of its structure.

I respect the choice to vote one way or another. My only hope is that when the will of the group has been determined and the dust settles.....that all remember we are all JetBlue pilots....

A350

 

[A350]

Your information about the pension is inaccurate....the pension went away well after the government bailout of the airlines post 9/11.

A350

 

[Dizel8]

The situation at JB is not perfect....but it is a work in progress.
A350

It isn't a work in progress, when it keeps regressing.

Management said they would honor the work and would be complying with the outcome of the discussions. Then why on earth did the FSM get rewritten by management after it had already been agreed to by both parties? Why are only the good "company" enhancements here, the pilot enhancements are still awaiting IT?

How about the retirement work around, seen that any where lately or perhaps we should discuss "de minimus" or the new peer set. Perhaps we can discuss PSIA and how the company is now reneging on that.

The time for empty rhetoric and unfulfilled promises have passed, the company always said that being non union made them "nimble and flexible", but from my point of view, that certainly isn't the case when it comes to the pilots!

 

[House_X]

I see your point....however, many ALPA supporters have recall rights as well....do you see hypocrisy there also?

I am anti-ALPA because I have lived it for 20 years. Many of the ALPA supporters vilify those who aren't in their camp...in other words if you aren't for ALPA you are a moron who is unworthy of acknowlegement. See the previous post.

The situation at JB is not perfect....but it is a work in progress. ALPA has been this way for the entire 20 years I was a member and IMO has no chance of success because of its structure.

I respect the choice to vote one way or another. My only hope is that when the will of the group has been determined and the dust settles.....that all remember we are all JetBlue pilots....

A350

You think you got screwed at your last union carrier just wait till someone buys you out at your non-union carrier...scope, merger protection, medical insurance, retirement, these are serious issues that need to negotiated, they will not be given by charity...

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Your information about the pension is inaccurate....the pension went away well after the government bailout of the airlines post 9/11.

A350

Refresh my memory then. Was there not a meeting where the Government, Management, and the Union met in D.C for several days. All books were open. Union had consultants from a large bank(Goldman?) that indicated that USAIR without penison relief was toast. The Government if I am not mistaken said USAIR is dead and will not give a penny until costs come in line. So what choice did ALPA have?

 

[A350]

Sorry.....the timeline you speak of may exist....but it had nothing to do with the government bailout post 9/11.

There was a time when the company was trying to pawn off the pension on the govt, and the govt initially said no.

A350