the incredible shrinking airline CAL

[vetrider]

I'd take Continental's version of shrinkage and aircraft choice over that of my airline any day. My airline is literally shrinking and the only new airplanes are made of foam.

 

[Captain Overs]

You CAL guys are the most bitter ones I've ever seen. Why do you get so defensive on this board? Give it a rest already! Someone says something you don't like, and instead of engaging in an intelligent debate, you start by resorting to personal attacks.

Why the hostility?

 

[MGT3]

You CAL guys are the most bitter ones I've ever seen. Why do you get so defensive on this board? Give it a rest already! Someone says something you don't like, and instead of engaging in an intelligent debate, you start by resorting to personal attacks.

Why the hostility?

Can't we all just get along....

 

[Captain Overs]

Exactly!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

CAL is flying to GRB for the first time. GRB-CLE.

It is good for us (here in GRB), but a USAir or JetBlue flight direct to NYC would be better, as well as an AirTran or Spirit.

USAir could easily do it with an RJ. JetBlue could use a -190.

Good luck to all ya'll at CAL!

cliff
GRB

 

[PlaneDrvr]

which press report was that? I could've sworn I read something about new 737's and 787's. Maybe I was just imagining, or just forgot I don't know how to read.

I believe CO has already said that the 787s will replace their 767-200s; they have (10) that will probably be retired when the 787s come online. Many airlines have already phased out 767-200s, having about the highest CASM due to their size (capacity). Most airlines, like DL and UA stated that it was the 'least economical' int'l aircraft in their fleets. CO has 15-25 787 coming, so if all of the 767-200 and possibly some of the -300s go, it could very well be very little net positive and maybe just 'a wash.' Not sure of their 737s, but a lot of the -300 and -500 airframes are getting well along on age, and you could some 'more' (as some are already being removed) could be just replaced with newer NG 737.

So in the end it could very well be 'little or No growth' in their net fleet. However, all of this depends on whether the economy weakens even more, as a decline in air travel could follow. And, airline execs always figure enough flexibility in their 'fleet plans' to cover changes in the market.

Relax CO guys, not trying to 'slam' CO, just trying to give a reasoned analysis of the question posed in this thread. Also, the 'politics' of contract neg. could always play apart in company's proposed plans, as always.

Just my $0.02, for what its worth. Now continue with your previously scheduled 'rant.'

DA

 

[BID]

You CAL guys are the most bitter ones I've ever seen. Why do you get so defensive on this board? Give it a rest already! Someone says something you don't like, and instead of engaging in an intelligent debate, you start by resorting to personal attacks.

Why the hostility?

I don't think anyone is bitter, it is just this guys post is way off. Capacity will increase, next year and there will be expansion of mainline aircraft in CLE. A small one, I think it is something like three flights! but an expansion none the less. He/She is right though, most of the CLE growth are RJs and relocation from EWR.

I have no idea how many additional airframes CAL will have at the end of 2008. I do know we have a very flexible fleet plan and 30 new jets will be here by the end of 2008. 737-800 and 12 737-900 Ers if I am not mistaken. But once again I don't think we are bitter, just surprised this guys thinks we are shrinking, well we are not. At least not yet that is!

 

[Super Monkey]

Straight from Mr. Kellner's mouth prior to them showin up for the grand opening in CLE...

In a nut shell...

Because of congested airspace in EWR and our disability to keep things on-time, we are reducing airframes and increasing seats, ie 737s replacing RJs in EWR.

The RJs will be placed temporarily over in CLE for the expansion. Once the public catches on to some of the new routes, we will then replace the RJs with 737s. We also have CLE-CDG (Paris) in May 2008.

Here are the new routes...

In early 2008, Continental will add 27 new flights to 12 new nonstop destinations including:
New Destination Frequency Effective Date Greensboro, N.C. (GSO) Three times daily March 3, 2008 Omaha, Neb. (OMA) Three times daily March 3, 2008 Savannah, Ga. (SAV) Twice daily March 3, 2008 Birmingham, Ala. (BHM) Twice daily April 6, 2008 Charleston, S.C. (CHS) Once daily April 6, 2008 Green Bay, Wis. (GRB) Twice daily April 6, 2008 Tulsa, Okla. (TUL) Twice daily April 6, 2008 Little Rock, Ark. (LIT) Twice daily May 4, 2008 Memphis, Tenn. (MEM) Twice daily May 4, 2008 Lansing, Mich. (LAN) Three times daily May 4, 2008 Des Moines, Iowa (DSM) Twice daily June 12, 2008 Kalamazoo, Mich. (AZO) Three times daily June 12, 2008

 

[thor2j]

I believe CO has already said that the 787s will replace their 767-200s; they have (10) that will probably be retired when the 787s come online. Many airlines have already phased out 767-200s, having about the highest CASM due to their size (capacity). Most airlines, like DL and UA stated that it was the 'least economical' int'l aircraft in their fleets. CO has 15-25 787 coming, so if all of the 767-200 and possibly some of the -300s go, it could very well be very little net positive and maybe just 'a wash.' Not sure of their 737s, but a lot of the -300 and -500 airframes are getting well along on age, and you could some 'more' (as some are already being removed) could be just replaced with newer NG 737.

So in the end it could very well be 'little or No growth' in their net fleet. However, all of this depends on whether the economy weakens even more, as a decline in air travel could follow. And, airline execs always figure enough flexibility in their 'fleet plans' to cover changes in the market.

Relax CO guys, not trying to 'slam' CO, just trying to give a reasoned analysis of the question posed in this thread. Also, the 'politics' of contract neg. could always play apart in company's proposed plans, as always.

Just my $0.02, for what its worth. Now continue with your previously scheduled 'rant.'

DA

Need to due a little more checking. 767-200s are going to be around for atleast 8 more years. CO will not get rid of wide body a/c at this time. 25 787s and 25 more options. Uh, we don't have any 767-300s. Are 400s are relatively new. We will sell 15 classic 737s and get 57 new ones in the next two years. We might even sell a few more. That equals expansion. Maybe 4-6% a year, that ain't shrinkage.

The reason we are defensive, is the same reason everybody else is when they get slammed. Jblu gets it, DAL, UAL, etc...

It is all how you present it. When you(not you) state shrinkage and throw out some facts that are completely fictional, you get annoyed with stupidity.

 

[Furloughed80]

Here are some numbers:

2007 Delivered:
777-200 = 2

2008 Deliveries:
737-900ER = 21
737-800 = 12

2009 Deliveries:
737-900ER = 6
737-800 = 3
737-800/900ER = 15 (exact mix TBA)

787s to start deliveries in 2009. Firm orders:
787-800 = 8
787-900 = 17

Options:
82 737s and 787s. I could not find the breakdown of these options.

Outgoing aircraft:
2007:
737-500 = 3

2008:
737-300 = 7
737-500 = 12

Looks like a great deal of growth at CAL.