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The glory days are over - What do you think?

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Flyerjosh

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The glory days are over
BY BARRY SCHIFF (From AOPA Pilot, June 2006.)

Barry Schiff retired from TWA in 1998 after a 34-year career with the airline.

I have been agonizing over the topic of this column for a few years, not knowing if I should publicly air my personal thoughts. Not to do so, I finally concluded, would be intellectually dishonest. So at the risk of attracting flak, here goes.

I was hired as a pilot by Trans World Airlines in 1964. This was during the glamour years that began after World War II. Airline salaries were rising, working conditions improved with every contract renewal, and airline pilots earned approval and respect from every quarter. On international flights, airline pilots were treated like royalty.

No one working for Pan American World Airways or TWA during this period could possibly have anticipated the demise of their airlines. These were cultural icons of the twentieth century. At one time, TWA's logo was the second most recognizable in the world (Coca-Cola's was the first).

The death knell for this era sounded on October 24, 1978, when President Jimmy Carter signed the Airline Deregulation Act. The merits and demerits of deregulation aside, the long-term result for pilots was etched in stone. There would be an erosion of wages, working conditions, pensions, and job security.

Things got worse after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. Because of the need for additional security, airline pilots are locked in their cockpits behind bulletproof doors and suffer the indignity of coordinating trips to the lavatory with flight attendants.

The glory years are gone.

I could not have been prouder when my son Brian was hired by TWA in 1989. Although conditions had declined since the airlines were deregulated, being an airline pilot was still a great job. He upgraded to captain on the Boeing 727 11 years later. Although thrilled to be in the left seat of a jetliner for a major carrier, he worked harder and earned a smaller salary than I did many years previously.

TWA was assimilated by American Airlines in 2001. During the next two years Brian went from left seat to right seat to the street. He had been furloughed and eventually found a job flying Learjets for a Part 135 operator. He now flies as captain of a Canadair Regional Jet for a commuter carrier.

Like thousands of others who have been furloughed from the majors, he has no idea when he will be recalled. Considering that American is reducing its need for pilots by contractual increases in pilot productivity and outsourcing many of its shorter, thinner routes to commuter carriers, it could be many years before Brian again sees an American Airlines' flight deck. Another of my sons, Paul, began to satisfy his desire to become an airline pilot in 2000 when he was hired by Trans States Airline, a company that operated TWExpress, US Airways Express, and AmericanConnection. Paul bounced between all three and discovered after 9/11 that he was not making headway in accruing seniority.

After four domicile changes, he opted to leave Trans States and obtain a more promising position with United Express. He worked there for three years, during which he had as many changes in domicile, and discovered that the most he had earned after six years as a commuter pilot was less than $30,000 per year. He again foresaw little potential for a career like I had and with great mental anguish opted to change professions.

Paul recently started a pet-supply company, gets to spend every night in his own bed, and has an opportunity to develop a social life. As an airline pilot gone from home 21 days a month, he had little opportunity to meet someone with whom he might like to share a future. When he did meet someone, he had neither the time nor the money for dating.

Paul says, "It is relatively easy to get a job with a commuter carrier, but not because these carriers are losing pilots to the majors; they are not. The attrition rate at the regional level is high because so many pilots reach their limits of endurance and quit. They find it too difficult to live on starvation wages [especially those with families]. There usually was nothing left in my wallet after shelling out for commuting and crash-pad expenses."

Although these are anecdotal experiences, my frank and personal discussions with numerous other airline pilots corroborate my feelings about the state of the airline industry. I can no longer encourage aspiring airline pilots without first ensuring that they understand the treacherous and daunting journeys typically required to reach for such lofty goals.

Do not misunderstand. Coping with the challenges of weather, communing with nature in a way that only pilots can appreciate, and maneuvering a sophisticated aircraft from one place on Earth to another remains a stimulating and gratifying endeavor (although I think it was more fun with less automation). It is the price one must pay to get there that is so discouraging.

I frequently am asked for advice about becoming an airline pilot. The best advice I can offer those determined to endure the rigorous hardships often required is to simultaneously develop a sideline vocation that can be used in case of emergency. A pilot should never get into a position that is totally dependent on income from an airline.

Does the end justify the means? Does becoming a captain for a major airline justify all that must be endured to get there? Perhaps, but surviving long enough to get there is the problem.
 
I think Barry Schiff is an unhappy old man, and what he really means is, HIS GLORY DAYS are over.

This forum highlights a lot of the negative things, and a good deal of it is exagerated. Glory Days are over. Ha!

What, does this old grump expect all of us to walk around unhappy? He's mad he never got to play with all the cool new technology, and just hears about it now.
 
Metro752 said:
I think Barry Schiff is an unhappy old man, and what he really means is, HIS GLORY DAYS are over.

This forum highlights a lot of the negative things, and a good deal of it is exagerated. Glory Days are over. Ha!

What, does this old grump expect all of us to walk around unhappy? He's mad he never got to play with all the cool new technology, and just hears about it now.


Huh? Have you ever a ctually read anything else by Schiff? He's generally pretty upbeat, always a cheerleader for GA, speaks positively of his airline experiences. As far as not getting to play with new technology, He was a checka airman on the 767, so he spent plenty of time in glass cockpits. He only retired 8 years ago, it's not like he retired flying open cockpit biplanes.
 
Metro752 said:
I think Barry Schiff is an unhappy old man, and what he really means is, HIS GLORY DAYS are over.

This forum highlights a lot of the negative things, and a good deal of it is exagerated. Glory Days are over. Ha!

What, does this old grump expect all of us to walk around unhappy? He's mad he never got to play with all the cool new technology, and just hears about it now.

I have to ask, are you even a pilot? I mean, you post nothing about flying, yet you have 1800 posts here. Why should anyone take what you type seriously?
 
No I have never read anything by Schiff before except this one gloom and doom, sad, boring article.

That's my opinion, after reading one of his articles. If the guy didn't want to be judged by an article he wrote, then he shouldn't have had it published.

The majority of people do not read multiple things by one person, some fans or hardcore readers might read a lot about him, their favorite author maybe.

You have read a few articles by him, that's great, I've read one, and he sucks, in my opinion :D

When his *Flying Sucks* article gets a ton of attention, that's how people will remember him, in GENERAL.

fromunda said:
I have to ask, are you even a pilot? I mean, you post nothing about flying, yet you have 1800 posts here. Why should anyone take what you type seriously?
No I am not a pilot..... How did you guess? Now, seriously....DID I ever ask anyone to take what I type seriously? Did I ever claim to be a know it all?

EDIT: You have *6* WHOLE posts "here," what provoked you to crawl out of your hole and jump on my case? The fact that I ripped on Schiff over one article?
 
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Barry Schiff is correct. The "glory days" were relatively short lived, about 15 years, and they ended about 30 years ago. Most people who've been around the airlines for more that 5 or 10 years know this, yet there's a whole crowd out there trying to recapture something they never had, a dream.

Sure, there were a few glamorous jobs at the top, flying international for Pan Am, TWA, or Eastern. But the majority of the guys were flying DC 3's, Martin 404's, Convairs, etc doing the same thing we're doing today in Bombardiers and Embraers. They did it for about the same pay.

Airline flying is still a good job. It still beats the hell out of the midnight shift at 7-11, but if you got into this business to be worshipped and adored by the flying public, and mortals in general, man, you're in for a rough ride!
 
Metro752 said:
No I have never read anything by Schiff before except this one gloom and doom, sad, boring article.

That's my opinion, after reading one of his articles. If the guy didn't want to be judged by an article he wrote, then he shouldn't have had it published.



I don't think that Barry is going to be judged by one article. I'm a little surprised to find one in aviation who doesn't know his reputation. he writes a monthly column for AOPA pilot and has written many articles for many other aviation publications. He's also the author of The Proficient Pilot book series.

Metro752 said:
The majority of people do not read multiple things by one person, some fans or hardcore readers might read a lot about him, their favorite author maybe.

I'm left with the distinct impression that you do not read much at all.

Metro752 said:
You have read a few articles by him, that's great, I've read one, and he sucks, in my opinion :D

The point is not what you think about Schiff. Personally I don't care what you think of him. Some of his stuff I've enjoyed, other I have not. Makes no difference to me what you think. The point is that this guy, with a lifetime of experience in the airline business wrote an article which contains a great deal of truth and echos the sentiments or a great many people in the industry. Yet you dismiss it as being completely inaccurate, and make some infantile and misinformed comments about him being "jealous" of the new technology. OUt of what orifice did you pull that? :rolleyes:
 
G-force said:
Barry Schiff has it RIGHT!!!!

Sure he does..... if you use his measuring stick...

If we continue to compare and measure our futures with the scales and rulers of the past we will only disapoint....

As this career gets redefined, let's ensure that it still worth it. That it still has value for us and the guys that are about to solo.

How?

Well.... hoping that the politicians, lobbyist and management keep us in mind during the re-vamping is like hoping the Warden is going to take care of you at Shawshank....

Instead we gotta think like Andy.....
 
Flyerjosh said:
Sorry. In the 3000 posts a day that get made that thread slipped me by.
That's no reason to get persneckity.
 
For Barry Schiff, cheerleader of GA for AOPA, to write an article like this is truly telling. I'm fairly sure you will not see it taped to a wall at a flight school desperate for dollars better spent on an MBA or graduate school.

Right on Barry! We need more articles like this to counter the Kit Darby propaganda and every other ad you read in Flying magazine.
 
Remember fly because you like to and this a great career. I think I agree qwith SSDD
 
pilotyip said:
Remember fly because you like to and this a great career. I think I agree qwith SSDD
The only time a chicken de-boner got killed was on the drive to/from work or when a co-worker came back to work with a shotgun after getting fired. How many pilots do you know came back to work with a shotgun after getting fired? None? Well, there you have it, chicken de-boners love their jobs more than pilots.
 
A Squared said:
...........I'm left with the distinct impression that you do not read much at all.

I sure don't read AOPA after they couldn't save Meigs Field, but I sure do read plenty, and pardon me if my grammar and spelling leaves you with the impression I dun't reeed much, cuz u no dis is a massage bored! I didn't know i wuz bein grayded...

A Squared said:
The point is .......... Personally I don't care what you think of him ......... Some of his stuff I've enjoyed, other I have not. Makes no difference to me what you think. ......... The point is that this guy, with a lifetime of experience in the airline business wrote an article which contains a great deal of truth and echos the sentiments or a great many people in the industry. Yet you dismiss it as being completely inaccurate, and make some infantile and misinformed comments about him being "jealous" of the new technology. OUt of what orifice did you pull that? :rolleyes:

I don't expect you to care about what I think, thats why I used the word OPINION. I am not interested in some retired guy whining about all the problems today, preaching gloom and doom. If I want to hear some old guy whine about modern times, I have my own father to listen to (yes I ended the sentence with a preposition :D )

Finally, I have no "beef" with you, and no beef with Barry Schiff. I just wanted to comment .......

Metro752 said:
I think Barry Schiff is an unhappy old man, and what he really means is, HIS GLORY DAYS are over.

This forum highlights a lot of the negative things, and a good deal of it is exagerated. Glory Days are over. Ha!

What, does this old grump expect all of us to walk around unhappy? He's mad he never got to play with all the cool new technology, and just hears about it now.

...... That I am tired of hearing and reading about all the gloom and doom and whining. This is like any other internet message board, people post their opinions, they usually mean nothing, like mine, and then others make their opinions known.

Please don't take this as a personal attack A Squared, I do bow out to you in terms of knowledge in regards to professional aviation. Hell I'd bow out to most people who post here.
 
Right on Metro, you are singing my tune. I am teaching my grandson to fly and he elects to pursue a professional flying career like his father and grandfather, I will be most supportive and also recommend he not go to college full-time. I still feel this is a fantastic career. I work with too many people who love what they do. Perhaps that is because for many of them it is a second career and thy have something to compare it to
 
The "glory days" are over because you can't lift your pinkey while lifting a cup of tea and telling your relatives or friends that you fly a jet airliner...boo hoo.

Regional jet airlines have proven that even a monkey can fly an airplane.

Whatever.
 
Love of the job

FN FAL said:
The only time a chicken de-boner got killed was on the drive to/from work or when a co-worker came back to work with a shotgun after getting fired. How many pilots do you know came back to work with a shotgun after getting fired? None? Well, there you have it, chicken de-boners love their jobs more than pilots.

I wouldn't say that pilots love their jobs as much as they love the dream of the job.

SKyHigh
 
Actually the chicken de-boner can afford shells for the shotgun, a pilot would use that money to get a few meager calories into his starving gullet.

Also, those guys back in the days of the DC3 and the Convairs probably were doing it for the same wage as the kids (yes, I used the word KIDS because that's what they are) in the RJs. But let's face it, 19k a year back in the 60s was a frekin fortune.

The entire aviation industry is pretty much a joke, and not a very funny one. Pilot are literally worked to death, either through burnout and physiological collapse from the long exhausting hours, or through a fatal crash because the half-arsed management of the airlines won't pay up for decent training and maintenance. It makes me wonder why I'm still in this industry.

Frankly, I want out. I'm working on my education to get out too.
 

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