The Flight Options Army

[netjetwife]

Something to think about. There has been no public information posted about the numbers from the bylaws vote. Any numbers here have been taken from a private website and a private messageboard for IBT 1108 dues paying members.

Until there is a public announcement of the bylaw count posting the numbers here is in bad form, and/or be grounds for suspension or banning from the 1108 messageboard.

That information didn't come from that source; mine was hearsay. But you just confirmed it, thereby violating the rules you self-righteously are quoting... What a double standard anyway. Many of us proudly posted numbers from the other votes....MEC election, Failed TA, strike vote, and passed CBA. With not one complaint or warning. Admit it; this is political posturing.

Are you sure you guys want to go down this path? Shall we discuss the ethics of deleting a person's post without their permission, as well? I find that to be much worse form, deserving of the punishment you suggest for me. Something to think about. It left a paper trail which I printed out.

 

[netjetwife]

As for the vote, I fully intended to read the proposed bylaws and vote on them. It was very difficult to make the time necessary, however, especially since every time I started reading them I was sound asleep in 5 minutes!

I must confess, that my "reading" is more accurately described as merely skimming. I want to think that I'd have made more of an effort had I been casting a vote.... For anyone that had wanted to vote differently on the bylaws and dues increase, however, even the most in-depth study of the document wouldn't have corrected that major flaw. I'm not surprised that many abstained. Low voter turn out is evidence that it was mishandled. Or went just as planned, depending on your perspective of the situation.

 

[C680]

Netjetwife on the ropes?

That information didn't come from that source; mine was hearsay. But you just confirmed it, thereby violating the rules you self-righteously are quoting... What a double standard anyway.

Did you work in the Clinton administration?

 

[Diesel]

That information didn't come from that source; mine was hearsay. But you just confirmed it, thereby violating the rules you self-righteously are quoting... What a double standard anyway. Many of us proudly posted numbers from the other votes....MEC election, Failed TA, strike vote, and passed CBA. With not one complaint or warning. Admit it; this is political posturing.

Are you sure you guys want to go down this path? Shall we discuss the ethics of deleting a person's post without their permission, as well? I find that to be much worse form, deserving of the punishment you suggest for me. Something to think about. It left a paper trail which I printed out.

Wow you really want to go down this path don't you. '

MEC election, Failed TA, strike vote, and passed CBA. With not one complaint or warning. Admit it; this is political posturing.

Call it whatever you want. jellybeans for all I care about but I posted a general note to keep people from posting certain information that is protected which YOU did. I was respectfull and didn't name you specifically but I wanted to make sure the union published the info to the genereal public first.

All of the other of the other announcements were before the recently revamped rules changed that we are currently going through.

Show me though where I have ever deleted a post on this board (which I don't have access to) or the other message board. It has never happend UNLESS it has violated the rules to which you might want to review on the NJ board.

I'm not running for any office nor do I have any ambition too. I do have a responsability to make sure that the rules are respected on our board. I don't know who you refer to as GUYS but I am one person.

I'm glad you printed it all out but I have no idea what you printed, although if you printed off posts from our messageboards then that is too a violation of the rules.

We have these rules to protect the membership and the union so that they can post without having to worry about people printing off or showing mgmt posts.

 

[SCT]

Diesel,

How come the mods. and board gods allow constant union talk on the Fractional board? Instead of the Union board? You guys/gals used to be aviators..........

 

[Diesel]

Because I think a lot of people like to post under a "handle" and also to find out how other companies are doing it. Thats just my take on it.

There is a difference talking about generalities versus numbers though.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Diesel,

How come the mods. and board gods allow constant union talk on the Fractional board? Instead of the Union board? You guys/gals used to be aviators..........

Ha! That's awesome.

Question: What is an "aviator" in todays workforce without the realization that he/she is a Union pilot?

Answer: A cog. Not much more... and completely expendable.

 

[netjetwife]

SCT, pay and working conditions, plus any ideas on how to improve them are directly relevant to a discussion of current conditions in the fractional industry.

Diesel, I dare say anyone who had their post deleted without their knowledge would be understandably interested in discussing the situation. For clarity sake, I did not name you as the person who actually deleted my post; nor was mine the only one singled out. Another post--made by a pilot-- also was pulled without permission. I had responded (in this very thread) to his post and both disappeared, though not without a trace. (What I printed came from my own mail box and had nothing to do with the NJ message board). Very poor strategy as both of us just reposted our thoughts. Which leads to the logical conclusion that it was the timing that was viewed as problematic, considering the missing posts were made prior to the bylaws election.

No, you didn't name me specifically; it wasn't necessary to do so ... Though I do think your "warning" brought more attention to the subject than my observation (based on discussions) on recent events.

Quote--"All of the other of the other announcements were before the recently revamped rules changed that we are currently going through". I beg to differ. The same privacy rules were in place at that time. The critical difference being we were all proud of those numbers. The latest aren't nearly as flattering are they? And it is a bit of a stretch (not previously made) to suggest that a round figure in a well publicized event has the potential to harm an individual pilot's career/reputation and thus should be guarded information.

As for my use of the word "guys"--you weren't alone in the public chastisement. Torch joined in, as well. Again, drawing far more attention to my post than it would have generated on its own... Additionally, I have no doubt that the decision (to pull those posts) was not made by just one person with access to this board. As I often do, I was speaking to the larger audience of those who read the board without posting. Your mention of "bad form" brought up a very relevant point that sparked a comment from me. That is the purpose of a message board, is it not? Speaking of rules--what do they say regarding censorship? What board rules did the other poster and I break when we dared to criticize union decisions?

I know that you personally aren't running for an elected position. (friends are) That doesn't preclude you having strong feelings/opinions on the issue. I think it would be much better form to exchange our views on the upcoming election rather than make veiled attempts to discourage an open debate.

I hardly need a lecture on guarding the privacy of pilots. My front row seat has made me privy to a great deal of sensitive information that doesn't appear on any message board, and I constantly post under the self-imposed stricture of respect for the privacy of others. It must be noted, however, that the idea of respectful treatment was not accorded to me when the decision was made to censor my comments on this thread. Am I to understand from that dastardly deed that others find it acceptable to operate with a different moral attitude than I have shown?

El raton, I could give you lots of "secret stuff" but I would much rather just discuss the issues and the direction the pilots think the union should go from here. I'd rather talk about past work accomplished and ideas for the future.

 

[SCT]

"My front row seat has made me privy to a great deal of sensitive information that doesn't appear on any message board, and I constantly post under the self-imposed stricture of respect for the privacy of others."...NutJetWife

Whooooo, you are so important, NJW!

Any chance you can give us people that are actually in the business some more pointers on "tipping etiquette"?

SCT

 

[netjetwife]

Why SCT, with such a charming personality, I'm surprised that you require any help....

The article about tips that was posted by a pilot on the NJ message board was quite well received. Let me see ... what can I recall that would serve you the best. Oh! Here's a good one---always use the correct name for the person you are speaking to.....

"Important" was your choice, not mine. Though I would describe myself as very well-informed. If "front row seat" doesn't appeal, feel free to mentally replace it with a more common expression like inner circle. I deliberately use the former description to avoid the stigma you have nonetheless unfairly ascribed to me.... My husband is very involved and I pay attention. Any other NJ couple could do the same, and I encourage it.

 

[TORCH67]

Netjetswife, I can't tell you not to post on this board and I can't tell you what to post or not to post! I can give you my opinion for what it's worth. You come on this board as the "wife" of a Netjets pilot and spam almost every post in the fractional section. You have irritated a great deal of the pilots that visit these boards. Diesel and I simply post a friendly reminder that information obtained from the 1108 board or through hearsay from union officials should not be released here for the public. I am an 1108 supporter and I am not running for any position, so no motive here!!! You really need to examine your role and post appropriately

 

[Diesel]

Diesel, I dare say anyone who had their post deleted without their knowledge would be understandably interested in discussing the situation. For clarity sake, I did not name you as the person who actually deleted my post; nor was mine the only one singled out. Another post--made by a pilot-- also was pulled without permission. I had responded (in this very thread) to his post and both disappeared, though not without a trace. (What I printed came from my own mail box and had nothing to do with the NJ message board). Very poor strategy as both of us just reposted our thoughts. Which leads to the logical conclusion that it was the timing that was viewed as problematic, considering the missing posts were made prior to the bylaws election.

I DON"T HAVE ANY MODERATION OVER FLIGHTINFO. sigh

 

[SCT]

"Why SCT, with such a charming personality, I'm surprised that you require any help.... "

-NutJetWifey- Coming from you that is a compliment!

-I don't know about the article posted by the PILOT on the NJ message board. (I would have actually read the article coming from someone in the industry.) I'm talking about the post YOU made awhile back giving advice on tipping etiquette on FI. But of coarse YOU know so much about this business.

Once again, I state that you NJW are an egotistical wannabe who spouts your constant socialistic agenda.........take a chill pill women!
SCT

 

[netjetwife]

SCT, I'm quite aware of your reference. To set the record straight, my "advice" amounted to nothing more than the "rules" of etiquette in society when it came to the tipping of pilots. As there seemed to be quite a bit of confusion on whether or not it was "correct" for pilots to accept tips, I decided to research the subject of tipping. I was sharing the results of an internet search--to wit: pilots are not tipped unless they have provided service above and beyond their duties of flying the plane. I simply made the observation that many frac pilots, especially FOs, do numerous tasks outside of flying the plane and that would account for some of the pax tipping them. My mention of the article on the NJ board was a comparison. He was sharing actual advice on how to increase one's tips. Do feel free to put me on your ignore list.

Diesel, I know that you're not a moderator here. I didn't suggest that you are. That said, what motivation would a FlightInfo moderator have had? Anyone in my position would raise an eyebrow. Actually, two of us did. The pilot whose post generated my own was also surprised.

Torch, I reiterate, there were no complaints when many of us posted percentages and numbers from previous elections. Lots of us discussed the votes. The difference now is that I dared to be critical in an election time...and that I'm a wife.... I do think the board realized my role without the bold print, Torch. My name choice is rather obvious, don't you think....

There have recently been posts from pilots, both NJ and others, supportive of my right to participate in discussions here, and thanking me for sharing info about NJA. Furthermore, the PMs I receive regularly on this board and the NJ board don't echo your opinion. If you were in my position, I'm sure you'd listen to the positive majority and politely decline the negative minority. As a NJ pilot told me recently--you can't please them all. He recommended that I just be myself. It sounded like good advice to me. When one considers how I post, compared to what I know, it is irrefutably discrete, thus, appropriate. After all, I'm not the one who has a problem staying on topic and discussing the issues. Netjetwife...

 

[IronManNDFW]

NJOwner:

You speak of 6 people you know who wan to leave when their contract is up. My suspicion is there are at least 6 owners at NJ that wish to leave when their contracts are up at NJ. It's just the nature of the business. You win some and you loose some. It's just like which hotel are you going to stay in tonight? Who cares?

Will "Mother" let FLOPS, FLOP? Nope! I can think of 3 real good reasons: 1. Mother has a habit of fireing CEO's she dosen't like and replacing them with even more inept CEO's, 2. You have to off set all the money you are making selling military hardware at Raytheon Defense Systems (RDS makes big bucks in the war, and FLOPS looses it fly around burning holes in the sky). This is where we pilots can really help out Old Mom, and 3. If Mother can figure a way to squeeze a nickle out of this pig sty, she'll hold on to it for ever. She has already "sold it" a couple of times to greese balls that didn't work out... Besides see #2.

Hawker: Oh come one man! You know dang and good that you can hardly get more than 3 people around FLOPS to agree on anything. And that's where your going to have dinner!

Things take a bit of TIME. So the same 20 are bitching about it? You sure must be proud to be in that group. Here's an idea, take ACTION! BE a LEADER, rather than a FRACKEN WHINNER!!! IF these 20 see you Jumpping up and DOING SOMETHING about the PROBLEM insted of sitting around scratching your coffee and bitching about it, they may get a CLUE,a nd THEY may ACTUALLY get excited and stop scratching their coffee, and DO SOMETHING about the PROBLEM too.

Just imagine what the 20 of you can do with the rest of us? Think we can make the Company lap dogs sit up and take notice? Just incase your still scratching your coffee - the anser is HELL YES!

Once "Mother" realizes that there is "yet another" problem going on at FLOPS, she will investigate. She will clean house again, and we may actually get a contract, but WE all have to make it a concerted effort. Otherwise they will play that silly a$$ game of one group against the other. You know the Sr. Captains who want to work to see the company suceed. MARK MY WORDS ONCE A FLIPPEN AGAIN.

You'd think that over 7 years you'd figure out with my track record you could trust that I was right...

And come to think of it YES WE DO NEED HELP FROM OR BROTHERS, SISTERS, FRIENDS, ETC from 1108. Oh now we can be STUPID or as Carlos calls it DEE, DEE, DEE, and learn all they know from scratch. Would it be better NOT To have to take that long to learn their lessions? To listen to what has happened to them, to execute a plan devised by both groups learning from NJ's mistakes, and being adjusted by both groups.

You talking about bringing a company and it's chain gang lawyers to their knees.

Look my friends - Most of you know me. Are we not smarter than all this carp? Didn't most of us SPEND 10's of thousands or more dollars getting our 4 year degrees? Then add on top of that somewhere near $50-$150,000 for flight training and type rating etc., then working our asses off for low wages flying in the most dangerious condition so that we can fly jet's and get paid worse than Irianian Military pilots?

Oh come on people! We are the brightest group, most talented, most creative people on this planet. To what have our IDIOTIC CEO who can't even run a company except into the ground (Poor move there "Mother" but a typical one for you), who can only hire a "Law Firm" (made up of educated chimpanzees) to try and stop our FREIGHT TRAIN!

Oh now People PLEASE

When I came to RTA is had sowm problems but it was ok. When we mwerged, the Goomba, supposedly ran a good shop. Couldn't prove it by many RTA folks. He made a deal with "Mother" that he just could not refuse. So now he's in AZ somewhere. We have ha so many CEO's now I forget them all, but bottom line they went from bad to worse, and i think this one is just about a homeles garbage eating drunk.

Why would I say that, because I believe it is true, and if he thinks that little of his employees, and his goal is to place we highy skilled and trained professionals there, I'd rather see him there 1st.

Now what are you waiting for? A written invitation?
Well sweetheart --here it is!

 

[C680]

Smarter than carp?

Look my friends - Most of you know me. Are we not smarter than all this carp?

Well sweetheart --here it is!

It has been "stinking" in this thread for quite a while, and now I know why. Bunch of bottom feeding carp you are trying to outsmart.

Certainly it is not for the company being kept in this thread... :smash:

 

[C680]

Normally loquacious...but mute?

Originally Posted by netjetwife
That information didn't come from that source; mine was hearsay. But you just confirmed it, thereby violating the rules you self-righteously are quoting... What a double standard anyway.

C680 said: Did you work in the Clinton administration?

The normally loquacious NJW didn't answer my question.

:laugh:

 

[netjetwife]

My apologies. I thought it was merely sarcasm and you didn't expect an answer. Here you are.....No, I didn't.

I was otherwise engaged looking up the data to prove my point (referenced in your quote above) as I don't make statements that I can't back up. As an example, there have been at least two threads, 6 pages or longer, dedicated to discussing prior vote results at NJA. There have also been announcements of important events regarding negotiations. My assertion of a double standard is very applicable. The evidence is as obvious as the reason. It's election time for the NJ pilots and I'm for the other slate.
NJW

 

[RNObased]

That information didn't come from that source; mine was hearsay. But you just confirmed it, thereby violating the rules you self-righteously are quoting... What a double standard anyway. Many of us proudly posted numbers from the other votes....MEC election, Failed TA, strike vote, and passed CBA. With not one complaint or warning. Admit it; this is political posturing.

Are you sure you guys want to go down this path? Shall we discuss the ethics of deleting a person's post without their permission, as well? I find that to be much worse form, deserving of the punishment you suggest for me. Something to think about. It left a paper trail which I printed out.

Wow, NJW just when I think I have read it all, you come along with something that makes me shake my head. Looks to me like you are reading WAY, WAY TOO MUCH, into Diesel's post. It was a warning plain and simple. Didn't look like he was coming after you in any way, shape or form.

However you go off on some tangent about polictical posturing, double standard and the famous deleted post conspiracy, which makes Water Gate look like nothing.

I really wonder what your motives are by calling Diesel out, care to explain??

 

[netjetwife]

RNObased,the two deleted posts are not a conspiracy; (your connotation implies it didn't happen) it is a fact that my post and the NJ pilot's post I responded to were removed without our permission from this very thread. We had been critical of the bylaws prior to the election. I can see no logical reason that moderators here would have been interested. I saw only the result, not who made it happen. Diesel's comment about "bad form" evoked an opinion/response from me on how much worse it was to delete posts that had been posted in accordance with the rules, if not to the liking of someone behind the scene.

I find a warning directed at (only) me for discussing voter turn out to be extremely hypocritical when there have been numerous threads on this board devoted to discussions of several vote results at NJA--started and posted on by NJ regulars, including Diesel. Tell me, what big vote wasn't discussed here? From the strike vote to the failed TA to the one that passed, all have been discussed at length by the NJ crowd who threw out all the exact numbers and percentages. All those times not one word was uttered about posting info from the NJ board... Yet, now, I mention a round (rough math) number of non-voters in a bylaws vote and I am publicly chastised? It was a clear case of hypocrisy. More facts--Diesel and I are supporting opposite sides in the upcoming MEC election. The slate he supports spoke out in favor of the bylaws. The side I support has members who were voicing opposition-- For example, the fact that the dues increase was part of the bylaws document instead of being listed, and voted on, separately. I think discerning readers can see the connection.

I am motivated by the same principals that have been behind my other posts--fairness. I believe strongly that all frac pilots deserve comparable pay and I believe that all posters deserve to be treated the same when the rules are applied. No one else who posted one of the many comments about other NJ votes was given a "warning." Those who don't see a double standard have their heads buried in the sand because they don't want to concede the reality of the situation. I don't see a conspiracy; I see intimidation. Now that you have asked what motivated my legitimate complaint about being unfairly singled out, are you going to ask why Diesel and Torch saw fit to give me, alone, a "warning" on a public message board for making the same type of post that has been made by many (including Diesel) before me?

If we don't see things from the same perspective, RNO, I suggest that it is because we are sitting in different "sections of the theater". I don't know how far back you're sitting, but I'm quite close to the "stage"....

Standing by my post,
Netjetwife