The Flight Options Army

[dime line]

while I agree with you NJAowner for the most part, we have quite a large number of Ex-NJ owners here and they like it (so they say)

 

[netjetwife]

DO-82, I publicly thank you for your donation! You are right that many NJ families contributed $$ to get things moving in the right direction. Volunteers continue to donate their time, some lose income because of it. (Now how would I know that... and, no I'm not complaining!) The point I'm making is that great things are possible when a united group holds strong convictions they are willing to sacrifice and work for. I have no doubt that those sentiments exist among the Options group, as well. We've all heard it, and I strongly believe it--

Where there's a will there's a way!

 

[Turbinehead]

More union holy war crap

GOOD POST!... This is essentially the attitude that happend at NJA to get management to negotiate in earnest... and when we wrote up the plane on the spot instead of carrying the trip, they really started paying attention.

But mostly, the general attitude of the pilots became, the job is NOT worth it in its present form. I'd just as soon be elsewhere, doing something else making more bucks and happier to boot ! Hang in there !

Burn Baby Burn:smash::angryfire:uzi:

I have risen from the dead to say this: the sound of more union holy war verbiage is sad to hear. You would cause your company to crash and burn and do these things speaks to your character. Sad. IF you will do this during negotiations, you would when things are good too if you had a bad day.

Burn baby burn. Sad. RIP Flight Options.

 

[Dep676]

I have risen from the dead to say this: the sound of more union holy war verbiage is sad to hear. You would cause your company to crash and burn and do these things speaks to your character. Sad. IF you will do this during negotiations, you would when things are good too if you had a bad day.

Burn baby burn. Sad. RIP Flight Options.

The pilots did not start the war at Options, management did. So they are just trying to fight the war that management started. The pilots are doing or have not done anything to make the company crash and burn. Again, upper management has and continues to do so.

The pilots have to show management they can have an influence on what happens with the company. Now if that means they ground a few airplanes for small mx items, then so be it. What management does not realize is that the pilots have a lot of control how the company is run. There are already stories of how the charter costs have increased because the pilots are not answering the phones before their expected duty on times. That is called solidarity. That is the only way that a contract will come about. When management finally wakes up and listens to the pilots instead of the lawyers at F&H and only then will the company begin to run smooth.

 

[AceCrackshot]

The management could end this tomorrow, if they wanted. The could walk into our negotiators with a contract that mirrors the industry standard pay, schedule and benefits package, and we'd have a contract in a month.

Instead, Ford and Harrison has convinced Raytheon that a union jihad is the way to go. Management won't punish me, and I'm not punishing them. We are punishing the owners.

Ultimately, the owners will have the final say. The only question is who they will believe is to blame. I speak with these people everyday. I know the answer. The credibility gap from owners isn't with the pilots.

 

[NJAowner]

It may be true

Dime -- I know 6 FLoPs owners and not one is close to being happy. Each is waiting for their respective contract to be up and most have already contacted NJA. One will move to CS. Of course, this is only a very limited sample. Personally, I do not know anyone moving from NJA to FLOPS. I know some who are considering CS but that is it.

Fly safe.

 

[ozpilot]

When the Netjets pilots were in negotiations they already had a contract and were protected/restricted by the Railway Labor Act. The options pilots are fighting for their first contract.

Do they fall under the RLA? Or is it only after a contact is signed? If not, I see their struggle as very different.

 

[hammer2]

So here is a question for the nja pilots, what will happen to seniority when nja buys flops? Will some guy at nja who is close to upgrade lose his spot because a flops guy is now a higher number? Will a flops pilot flow to nji before a nja pilot? This will become very intresting.

 

[TORCH67]

Not going to happen hammer! There will be no merger or seniority grab, so don't try and start rumors or stir up feces!

 

[netjetwife]

When the Netjets pilots were in negotiations they already had a contract and were protected/restricted by the Railway Labor Act. The options pilots are fighting for their first contract.

Do they fall under the RLA? Or is it only after a contact is signed? If not, I see their struggle as very different.

Their struggle is different in some respects, as you have noted. They lack the same protections and must be careful. On the other hand, managers there appear to have become just as much accustomed to the pilots fixing management's problems as NJA managers were. When pilots decide to do only their own duties (not scheduling, catering, etc) and earn the paycheck they are given instead of working above and beyond for less than industry wages, the company will begin to hear the message that the pilots are aware of their considerable contribution to the operation and expect to be compensated accordingly. When the stick approach is shown to have negative consequences the wielder begins to see the sense in offering a carrot. Protracted labor unrest is not a desirable condition; when management becomes uncomfortable they'll be motivated to bring a fair offer to the table. Yes, there are differences, but human nature is the same at both companies.

Options pilots: While standing up for yourselves, do so under the guidance of your leaders. It will do no one any good if you are fired or cause problems for 1108. I know that your group is being given help and advice by those qualified to answer your questions and provide the best strategy. Please help them to help you. Stay informed, stand together, and follow your leaders. There is light at the end of the tunnel and many satisfied NJ pilots and their families are evidence of that. It can happen for your group, too. It just takes work and determination.
Best Wishes!
NJW

 

[netjetwife]

The management could ...could walk into our negotiators with a contract that mirrors the industry standard pay, schedule and benefits package, and we'd have a contract in a month.

Ultimately, the owners will have the final say. The only question is who they will believe is to blame. I speak with these people everyday. I know the answer. The credibility gap from owners isn't with the pilots.

Good post, Ace! I agree that the owners see the obvious--professional pilots are taking them safely where they need to go. I hardly think they expect that service should be theirs for less than the going rate. When it comes to safety they surely don't want to take a chance that "you get what you pay for" will be what they think in the middle of a crash. Owners realize that experienced pilots will leave if they aren't compensated according to their skills. I have no doubt that they'd be shocked to know that some pilots qualify for government assistance. I'm just as sure that Flight Options isn't proudly telling owners that the pilots are underpaid/overworked. Made aware of the facts, how could they deny the justification of your contract battle?

As for management, they know that low morale and poor motivation has a ripple effect which impacts performance and growth. When they get past their arrogance and anger at having the pilots stand up to them, they'll calm down and realize that working together is in everyone's best interest. They may do so grudgingly, but if the pilots hold their ground, they'll come around.

WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT YOU CAN'T GO BACK, YOU ARE MORE COMPELLED TO MOVE FORWARD

 

[Galaxy]

Dime -- I know 6 FLoPs owners and not one is close to being happy. Each is waiting for their respective contract to be up and most have already contacted NJA. One will move to CS. Of course, this is only a very limited sample. Personally, I do not know anyone moving from NJA to FLOPS. I know some who are considering CS but that is it.

Fly safe.

You are very correct NJAOwner.. It is sad but the owners I have talked to are very upset and eager to jump ship. Some are owners on the retiring fleets and FLOPS can no longer meet thier needs so they are going elsewhere. Most however are just fed up with the lack of integrity from OSR. It is not OSR's fault though-they are just relaying info given to them by the schedulers. I do not claim to know the fix to the problems but something has to be done because operations as normal will be the end to FLOPS.
Just take a look at thier new programs:
Pilot incentives for sales
Fractional First

 

[dash_trash]

The illustrious upper management must go! They have such a stellar record; lets start with AmericaWest … Bankruptcy; USAirways Metro Jet … bye, bye. USAirways Shuttle … rolled into mainline. USAirways Express … retroactive pay cuts, etc. Oh, did I mention the 2 Bankruptcies, and the bonus taken in the first bankruptcy. While others were loosing there jobs, or taking substantial pay, benefit, and retirement hits, they got a bonus.

Now that’s leading by example!

 

[netjetwife]

When upper management is morally bankrupt no one should be surprised that the company ends up financially bankrupt. Getting a bonus for cutting costs..read that workers...just adds insult to injury. Disgusting! Just another reason unions are needed...

 

[NJAowner]

NJA buying FLOPS

Just my opinion, but I do not think NJA will ever buy FLOPS --- that is just a dream of the FLOPs employees. Since many FLOPs owners are migrating to NJA naturally (and for free), why would NJA pay for owners who are coming anyway. It does not need FLOPs' equipment, doesn't need its operations, doesn't need its support operations.

Fly safe.

 

[netjetwife]

Desperate times result in very hopeful dreams. In the light of day, one realizes that the answer is to fight for the contract that makes the job worth keeping--all on its own. Listen to your leaders Options pilots. Follow their advice. Build your $ war chest. Dig in your heels on your just demands. That's what the NJ pilots did and others in the industry (or the regionals, for that matter) can do it, too.
Best Wishes!
NJW

 

[FamilyGuy]

When upper management is morally bankrupt no one should be surprised that the company ends up financially bankrupt. Getting a bonus for cutting costs..read that workers...just adds insult to injury. Disgusting! Just another reason unions are needed...

How can you honestly try to imply that unions have the moral high ground vs corporate management?

Truth be told, there are probably equal amounts of fraud and criminal acts on both sides.

And do not make the mistake of assuming I condone giving bonuses to managment whose sole contribution is to cut heads. Sometimes that is an unfortunate necessity, but it should be part of a larger strategic vision.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Just my opinion, but I do not think NJA will ever buy FLOPS --- that is just a dream of the FLOPs employees. Since many FLOPs owners are migrating to NJA naturally (and for free), why would NJA pay for owners who are coming anyway. It does not need FLOPs' equipment, doesn't need its operations, doesn't need its support operations.

Fly safe.

Good observations.

Another reason why NetJets will probably never buy FLOPs is that they have no interest in assuming the money losing deals FLOPs has made in an effort to attract and retain owners.

 

[netjetwife]

My statement was made as a general observation on situations. No specific groups were named--by choice. It was intended to caution workers to stand up for their interests, and not just rely on the "goodness" of the company to treat them fairly. I agree that immorality can be found in any group. I firmly believe that members must police their own lest they be harmed by the actions of a corrupt few. Any organization, in this case a union, is a direct reflection of its membership. Therefore, it is only right to judge each group, management or union, on the merits of their own behavior.

 

[NJAowner]

Leverage

As I have said before, the power in negotiations comes down to leverage. In the NJA-NJA Pilots battle owners were for the most part not a player -- the pie remained the same size (or slightly smaller). In a FLOPS-FLOPS Pilot battle, both sides are fighting over an ever decreasing size of the pie and the battle is just accelerating the decrease in size. FLOPs pilots and management should not think their battle is just like the NJA battle. It i smuch, much different, and both sides will come out as losers.

Fly safe.