The Fat lady just sang!!

Bringupthebird

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You know St.Nic is an 8 yr old with his Mom's iPad. Prolly got no friends, cut the lil bstard some slack.
 

Turtle21

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Victory is imminent. Send just one more donation. Go to CACTUSPILOT.COM and donate to the Push For Justice. Do it now!
 

Carl S.

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Read the ruling and come back with some facts. Does USAPA have to represent the West? Does USAPA go away and have no seat at single CBA? Was a DOH SLI found to past the DFR bar? The MOU was found to past the DFR bar by the smallest margin from Silver's ruling while remaining neutral on SLI, still haven't gotten to a SLI yet, we will be back in court again, the West is not quitting.. What did USAPA win but another day to try to get out of the NIC.
 

Metrojet

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Just a legal punt from Silver, read the ruling to see what she claims USAPA did to avoid a DFR this time, but once they present anything other than the NIC. we go back to court. The ruling trashes USAPA's legal tactics and their representation of West pilots. We had to file to avoid statue of limitation pressure and will be back once AAL or APA entertain anything not the NIC. It is not over by a long shot, read the ruling to get informed...

P.S.- AOL will just get more donations from our new rates, been doing it since 2008 and we have not quit yet and I see no retreat from the USAPA curse till APA takes over by years end...
Not a legal punt at all

Just sets the SLI process for a 3 way list integration starting with DOH and your seat / equip and career expectations from snapshot date. And if your under age 52 or so - you'll have greater career in the combined - if your over age 52 or so - you won't be harmed nor will you gain much at the expense of others. How can that not be fair?

Metrojet
 

johnsonrod

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Unforking believable! Wow - our country is slipping. First Supreme Court Justice Roberts screws us with his outlandish Obamacare decision and now this unfortunate legal precedent that will impact binding arbitration for years to come... Everyone entered the binding arbitration process understanding how it works.

Well, at least USAPA will be dead after this merger is complete and te APA takes over. This is a travesty but I guess we can hope for the best in the future.
 

Turtle21

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Read the ruling and come back with some facts. Does USAPA have to represent the West? Does USAPA go away and have no seat at single CBA? Was a DOH SLI found to past the DFR bar? The MOU was found to past the DFR bar by the smallest margin from Silver's ruling while remaining neutral on SLI, still haven't gotten to a SLI yet, we will be back in court again, the West is not quitting.. What did USAPA win but another day to try to get out of the NIC.
Yeah, read Silver's words. Page 10, line 17, she said the Court assumes USAPA had an obligation to use the Nic, and she still couldn't find them guilty of a DFR for not using it in the MOU. Judge Wake also implicitly assumed USAPA had an obligation to use the Nic.

Name one document that demonstrates USAPA must use the Nic. Name just one. Just one. The 2005 TA. That is the only document that obligates USAPA to use the Nic. What other obligations still exist from the nullified 2005 TA?

Marty will never get anywhere with an assumption that the Nic must be used by USAPA... except a whole lot richer off of people that continue to buy into his duplicitous hype.
 

Metrojet

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I suggest that anyone who thinks this is a win for USAPA read the order. Come up with your own conclusion. This simply means more delay. Nothing changed.

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West_Pilot_DFR_DJ/Order.pdf
Yes it is a very good read - the judge slammed both sides but in the end decided that no law was broken and even implied that when the SLI goes to MaCaskill Bond that there will be only one certified agent - APA which will have to represent all pilots fairly

Very interesting determination

Metrojet
 

Turtle21

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USAPA is nothing more than a fart in the wind. It stinks for a little bit, but eventually it goes away.
The Nicolau Seniority List Was Issued on May 3, 2007 that was
2444 Days 21 Hours 53 Minutes 46 Seconds Ago....

Tic, toc, tic, toc...
 

abefly

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Yes it is a very good read - the judge slammed both sides but in the end decided that no law was broken and even implied that when the SLI goes to MaCaskill Bond that there will be only one certified agent - APA which will have to represent all pilots fairly

Very interesting determination

Metrojet
Best post you have ever made metro. Logical and without emotion.

The big question is what will APA and the company do once USAPA is gone.

The DFR liability is still there. It will be APA's to inherit. The judge by no means said USAPA can use DOH, and she also said it does not have to be the NIC.

What will the arbitrators decide this time? With No seat at the table for the East or the West this will be very interesting.
 

Turtle21

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Best post you have ever made metro. Logical and without emotion.

The big question is what will APA and the company do once USAPA is gone.

The DFR liability is still there. It will be APA's to inherit. The judge by no means said USAPA can use DOH, and she also said it does not have to be the NIC.

What will the arbitrators decide this time? With No seat at the table for the East or the West this will be very interesting.

Silver did not order that APA will be the only participant in the MB SLI.
 

71driver

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Not a legal punt at all

Just sets the SLI process for a 3 way list integration starting with DOH and your seat / equip and career expectations from snapshot date. And if your under age 52 or so - you'll have greater career in the combined - if your over age 52 or so - you won't be harmed nor will you gain much at the expense of others. How can that not be fair?

Metrojet
I believe in laymens terms it means that there is only 1 recognizable list....the one from Judge Nicolau. While the East disagreed with it.....IT is the list that will be used for the SLI between American and US Airways. There is no other list WITH the 2 Pilot groups on it. There won't be 3 lists as you say.
I believe the EAST can once again state their case for date of hire, but the rub there is that would be a breach of DFR to the West.
At the end of the day I believe the APA will address the list as it stands, and merge the lists accordingly.
 

Dan Roman

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Yes it is a very good read - the judge slammed both sides but in the end decided that no law was broken and even implied that when the SLI goes to MaCaskill Bond that there will be only one certified agent - APA which will have to represent all pilots fairly

Very interesting determination

Metrojet
All I gather from reading this string is that the the Judge in the NEXT binding arbitration award is free to do whatever they think is fair? It doesn't seem like a win for either side?
The USAPA cheerleaders have a long record of overstating their position, have to wonder if that is still the case?
One thing for sure, the baggage USAPA brings to the table will hurt them and certainly even more so when the next Judge takes into account how they handled the last binding arbitration. That judge will have to factor in that one party agreed to binding arbitration and then reneged on the agreement. Obviously that has to be considered when the next ruling is made.
 

abefly

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Silver did not order that APA will be the only participant in the MB SLI.
Did you read the ruling? from page 20-21. See the bold. Once APA takes over USAPA has no right to the SLI.

"The Court?s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent​
all of its members while it remains a certified representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of

CAB, ?make every effort to see that [the West Pilots?] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fairly and fully represented? during seniority integration.​
National Airlines, Acquisition, 84 C.A.B. 408, 477 (1979). And when USAPA is no longer the certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration
 

Continental

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Shouldn't it be the fat lady has "sung"?
 

Turtle21

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Did you read the ruling? from page 20-21. See the bold. Once APA takes over USAPA has no right to the SLI.

"The Court?s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent​
all of its members while it remains a certified representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of

CAB, ?make every effort to see that [the West Pilots?] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fairly and fully represented? during seniority integration.​
National Airlines, Acquisition, 84 C.A.B. 408, 477 (1979). And when USAPA is no longer the certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration

Dicta.
 

Flyer1015

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So what list will USAPA send for SLI purposes with the new AA? It will most likely go to arbitration and APA will send their seniority list. What will USAPA send? Two separate lists, one east and one west?
 

Turtle21

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So what list will USAPA send for SLI purposes with the new AA? It will most likely go to arbitration and APA will send their seniority list. What will USAPA send? Two separate lists, one east and one west?
There is no necessity for it to go to arbitration, but assuming it does, the APA and USAPA will present their arguments in favor of their own proposed complete list for all New American pilots. The arbitrator will consider each new proposed list and the proposed methods to arrive at each new proposed list. Current lists in effect will be a factor in the status quo. UAL/CAL may be helpful for a rationale proposal/final award.
 
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