The Fat lady just sang!!

[Carl S.]

Will USAPA learn from Silver's warnings to represent all pilots or stay on their DOH jihad and see the final product to be very NIC. like at the least or it's DFR time all over with no ripeness or waiting for lists to be produced? How is this a victory for USAPA in the SLI game, we are not going away and AAL and APA have the next move? The MOU barely pasted the DFR bar, not a DOH list...

P.S.- Turtle, the money will always be coming in as long as USAPA is the bully, will Eastie give cash when it is their turn to defend themselves? I am proud that we are unified and still fighting, unlike you fractioned East side back stabbing each other. How many lost in the CLT Ponzi scam?

 

[Turtle21]

Will USAPA learn from Silver's warnings to represent all pilots or stay on their DOH jihad and see the final product to be very NIC. like at the least or it's DFR time all over with no ripeness or waiting for lists to be produced? How is this a victory for USAPA in the SLI game, we are not going away and AAL and APA have the next move? The MOU barely pasted the DFR bar, not a DOH list...

P.S.- Turtle, the money will always be coming in as long as USAPA is the bully, will Eastie give cash when it is their turn to defend themselves? I am proud that we are unified and still fighting, unlike you fractioned East side back stabbing each other. How many lost in the CLT Ponzi scam?

Spend your money how you want! Really!!

Did Marty send you a copy of the document that affirms the Nic Award must be used by anyone?

 

[Flyer1015]

There is no necessity for it to go to arbitration, but assuming it does, the APA and USAPA will present their arguments in favor of their own proposed complete list for all New American pilots. The arbitrator will consider each new proposed list and the proposed methods to arrive at each new proposed list. Current lists in effect will be a factor in the status quo. UAL/CAL may be helpful for a rationale proposal/final award.

Currently, can you confirm USAPA has two separate lists, one west and one east. Correct? Never in recent history has their been an amicable agreement on SLI (except AirTran/SWA but that's not a happy story). UAL/CAL, DAL/NWA, and US/AWA all went to arbitration. Why would AA/US be any different?

 

[71driver]

these US Airways East guys and there nauseating talk about date of hire is exhausting and hard to support...hence the judges comments As directed towards USAPA. The merger with America West was never designed to make up for stagnated careers. now these idiots are going to try the same Hail Mary pass with the merger with American Airlines.
date of hire is not how you merge fellas...of course you know this though
As a stand alone airline name one thing you get that is based on date of hire. upgrading to Captain weekends off holiday vacations......everything is based on relative seniority within your company. why you guys think a merger should change that is beyond me and why you receive such little support throughout the industry.

 

[Turtle21]

Currently, can you confirm USAPA has two separate lists, one west and one east. Correct? Never in recent history has their been an amicable agreement on SLI (except AirTran/SWA but that's not a happy story). UAL/CAL, DAL/NWA, and US/AWA all went to arbitration. Why would AA/US be any different?

I suggest it should not be any different. It should be a UAL/CAL type list, the easy way or the hard way. We'll see. Relative position looks really good for a lot of folks.

 

[tomgoodman]

If SLI negotiators in any merger ever do agree on a list, it might be wise to pretend that they are still deadlocked and go to arbitration. Then they secretly give the list to the arbitrator, ask him to award it, and wail loudly when he does so.

 

[Turtle21]

If SLI negotiators in any merger ever do agree on a list, it might be wise to pretend that they are still deadlocked and go to arbitration. Then they secretly give the list to the arbitrator, ask him to award it, and wail loudly when he does so.

That would be politically expedient. A little less than honest, but expedient.

 

[Hpilot]

Dicta.

Yes, you are correct it was just dicta, but a warning just the same. Interestingly enough it's almost the same warning USAPA received from another judge.

 

[johnsonrod]

Who wins? The LAWYERS!

 

[Turtle21]

Yes, you are correct it was just dicta, but a warning just the same. Interestingly enough it's almost the same warning USAPA received from another judge.

Judge Silver is a master politician and leaves people with strong impressions that they heard what they wanted to hear, yet she never once cited any authority requiring anyone to use the Nic. If she cites no authority requiring the Nic to be used, any warning assumed to be about some implicit obligation to use the Nic is just that, an implicit assumption.

The lawyers have plenty of new chum and bait to push for justice, apple pie, and donations.

Individual pilots would be far wiser to consider a waring to themselves to be on the look out for duplicitous solicitors, more so than to shed a tear for their lawyers having to navigate such implied warnings from the bench.

IMHO.

 

[71driver]

Judge Silver is a master politician and leaves people with strong impressions that they heard what they wanted to hear, yet she never once cited any authority requiring anyone to use the Nic. If she cites no authority requiring the Nic to be used, any warning assumed to be about some implicit obligation to use the Nic is just that, an implicit assumption.

The lawyers have plenty of new chum and bait to push for justice, apple pie, and donations.

Individual pilots would be far wiser to consider a waring to themselves to be on the look out for duplicitous solicitors, more so than to shed a tear for their lawyers having to navigate such implied warnings from the bench.

IMHO.

Is there another list? The Nic is the only one with both Pilot groups on a list that was awarded by an arbitrator...just because the East Pilots don't like it doesn't invalidate it.

 

[Turtle21]

Is there another list? The Nic is the only one with both Pilot groups on a list that was awarded by an arbitrator...just because the East Pilots don't like it doesn't invalidate it.

You are in favor of implicitly assuming a seniority list can be used, apart from any authoritative agreement to stipulate its use....? Marty has a present for you. Keep donating. No really. Send more money. Its a real nifty secret he has for you but you have to donate more money before he will let in on the secret. Keep it flowing.

 

[Turtle21]

Is there another list? ...

Don't worry. There is no legal hurdle preventing the APA and USAPA from using the Nic if they choose to. This is far from over. Its a long Odyssey. My LLC will do all it can to protect the seniority rights of all pilots. Rah, rah, rah.

See, I could start an LLC and take your donations too!


Worth repeating:

Individual pilots would be far wiser to consider a waring to themselves to be on the look out for duplicitous solicitors, more so than to shed a tear for their lawyers having to navigate such implied warnings from the bench.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

DFR suits are very difficult to win so to speak; and that is what this suit was about. The decision speaks of the high standard that must be satisfied to prove that a breach of DFR had occurred. The judge stated that no seniority terms have been imposed upon the former AWA pilots, be it the arbitrated award or otherwise; thus, it could not be proven that USAPA breached its duty of representation to the former AWA pilots.

Unfortunately, the court isn't about right or wrong, it's about compelling arguments in relation to a standard. I believe the judge is not a fan of what has occurred and may not believe its "right", but the plaintiffs failed to prove that USAPA breached their DFR. That's it. There are no fairness police.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Yes it is a very good read - the judge slammed both sides

Did McKee let you cuddle up in his rocking chair and read that to you?? How did the judge slam the west? She said the court had run out of patience with USAPA and it's lying counsel. She telegraphed that APA would soon run out of patience as well and will simply discharge USAPA and take over as adults.

I am quite glad that she chose to force USAPA to do it's job and represent the pilots. It is only by forcing their nutsack* into the beartrap that they will be caught doing what AOL was telling every court they would do. Silver gets it and will not let USAPA seek protection under her apron.

* metaphorical. USAPA has proven they do not have sufficient testicular inventory to lead.

 

[Carl S.]

Lets do the math, LOA 93 for 9 years at a loss of 40k average or 3K to AOL to keep the fighting going till USAPA presents a AWA/AAA list and we get a DFR ruling on it? My kids yearly hockey cost more than I have given to AOL, but 40k for 9 years to delay a NIC. type product....ouch. Do not forget all that PBGC witch hunt money, what was that, 50 a month for 36 months? The best part is most AFO's are mid to late 50's and are gone soon, I got 20 to go at the new AAL...

 

[dollacrackho]

Whoever said it is right . The only party that has won in this Olympics of the retards is the lawyers. Shameful.

 

[Turtle21]

Whoever said it is right . The only party that has won in this Olympics of the retards is the lawyers. Shameful.

It's ALPA's game and they benefitted too, with improvements to their outsourcing SLI policy, as well as the pilots of UAL/CAL who used the new improved policy.

 

[71driver]

You are in favor of implicitly assuming a seniority list can be used, apart from any authoritative agreement to stipulate its use....? Marty has a present for you. Keep donating. No really. Send more money. Its a real nifty secret he has for you but you have to donate more money before he will let in on the secret. Keep it flowing.

What other list is there for them to use?

You honestly think USAPA can show up with the "old" US Airways list and the the "old" America West's list, to the SLI talks with American? and get a do over? is that what you are saying? just asking.
Nothing has to be implied, it is what it is the NIC award as much as the East Pilots want to ignore it, it is the ONLY seniority list that has the combined Pilot group together.

I am not sure what you say about donating I don't work for the US Airways.
Just adding my thoughts to this riduculous notion that the East believe DOH has always been the way to go......gee I wonder why. Yet no East Pilot can stand on any common sense footing as to why.....other than (as anybody with a 5th grade education can determine) the East Pilots want to make up for the years of stagnation they experienced at the original US Airways....

If you're an East Pilot you should come to grips with that sooner than later

 

[Turtle21]

... I don't work for the US Airways...

My ignorance concerning where you DO work is exceeded only by your ignorance of what is going on here at USAirways.

Cheers