The Evil of PFT......

[Mike man]

All very true points...

but at least I'm not a D@UC#E BAG

 

[PCL_128]

but at least I'm not a D@UC#E BAG

I beg to differ.

 

[Mike man]

I guess we all know that you were PFT now!

Thanks for the heads up

M.O.

 

[8HourPilot]

Hey PCL,

I assume you are speking up cause (per viewing your profile) you did the Vince route of Gulf/PCL. Hey good for you. You played the game and got a job, and knowing how 9E is growing right now you should have some good. If I am wrong, maybe Colgan or something. Either way nicely done.

However comma, there are many more of us that did this whole thing right, worked our asses off and payed our dues. Some of us did'nt have a big check book. You had the money, good for you.....don't rip on the people that think you bought your job....cause thats exactly what you did.

Punk ass.

 

[bobbysamd]

Paying the TAB = P-F-T

Sure hope these sorts of programs are a dying breed... I was somewhat appauled when I saw how they market this program and the astronomical charges that the student must pay to get into the right seat.

Me, too. Gulfstream will always be Gulfstream, but I kind of liked the idea of a school teaching multi to students in KingAirs, even though it is extremely expensive for the value received.

 

[spinfreezone]

Does this ever go away?

Anyone who has ever CFI'ed for $8 an hour or flown for free or bought a type rating to get a job or spent time at a commuter/sweatshop for $16K a year is no better in my book than someone who PFTed. I don't see how any of you can look down your nose with righteous indignation at someone who PFTed. The dirty secret is we've all whored ourselves out at one time or another to get ahead, anyone who has ever taken a job for below industry standard wages to get experience was in effect "buying the seat". You're just paying for training/experience via your paycheck instead of paying for it up front, and we call that sort of PFT "paying your dues". There are no degrees of whores gentlemen, we are ALL whores, every single one of us. Something to ponder next time you feel like getting all high and mighty over PFT.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T v. Being Paid

Anyone who has ever CFI'ed for $8 an hour or flown for free or bought a type rating to get a job or spent time at a commuter/sweatshop for $16K a year is no better in my book than someone who PFTed. I don't see how any of you can look down your nose with righteous indignation at someone who PFTed.

At least as a flight instructor I was hired through the front door, went through a hiring process, was never told that as a condition of employment I would have to give them money to defray my training and earned wages through legitimate employment. At one job I had to sign a training contract. Training contracts are different than P-F-T.

I will use "paying your dues." "Paying your dues" is a figurative expression. It means working your way up the chain from an entry-level job, gaining experience and knowledge, for sure, but, more importantly, gaining appreciation for what you have endured and sacrificed to become qualified for and reaching your goals. "Paying your dues" does not mean actually remitting payment for a job. That is "paying-for-training." The only "sacrifice" therein is the tree that was felled for the paper on which you wrote your P-F-T check.

 

[100LL... Again!]

whether it works or not, my issue with PFT is this:

Anone who wnts to 'get ahead' this dsperately is also likely to skip over a lot of the other necessary hurdles, such as building real experience and putting useful knowledge into their heads.

PFT'ers train for the checkride, as it were.

Line-cutting points to character flaws, and perhaps someone who is fraid to make a go of it in the real world, so they buy 'job insurance' (PFT).

Weak, insecure people look for the easy way.

 

[PCL_128]

100LL:

Most people that I knew that PFT'd at The 'Stream did not have the attitude that you describe. I know that I didn't. It wasn't about "getting ahead" as quick as possible. It was about getting the best possible training that would teach me the most for my desired career: 121 flying.

Being a CFI seemed to me to be a waste in that it didn't teach me a thing about being an airline pilot. Sitting right seat in a Cessna teaching student pilots how to do stalls does not prepare you to fly in the 121 environment. Training at GIA did.

At the time, it seemed to me that the only difference in going the CFI route or the GIA route was what kind of training I would be paying for. I would either have to pay for my CFI/II/MEI, or I would have to pay for my 121 training at Gulfstream. I really didn't see a difference at the time. I was having to pay one way or the other.

In addition, I am certainly not someone that cuts corners as you suggest. I didn't train just enough to pass checkrides. I studies so that I would know as much as I possibly could about flying in general and 121 in particular. Most people at GIA were of the same mindset. There were a few slackers, but they were the exception not the rule. They can be found at any flight school whether they are training for a CFI or PFT'ing.

I know that none of this will change anyone's mind about PFT or GIA, but I am getting tired of the insinuation that all GIA pilots cut corners and have no character.

 

[kevdog]

PCL,

Just curious, how many people that started at GSI around the time you made it into an RJ rather than just sitting in the 1900? Also curious, do your CFI/II/MEI ratings cost $25K or whatever GSI charges you for their 1900 program? At least you walk away with ratings that airlines look at with respect.

 

[SMOE]

100LL:

Being a CFI seemed to me to be a waste in that it didn't teach me a thing about being an airline pilot. Sitting right seat in a Cessna teaching student pilots how to do stalls does not prepare you to fly in the 121 environment. Training at GIA did.

An old pilot once told me that during EVERY phase in your flying career you will function as an instructor in some sort of capacity or another; whether your are a CFI, DPE, F/O or Capt. Being a CFI for a couple of years gives you that foundation and experience that money can't buy.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,

Just curious, how many people that started at GSI around the time you made it into an RJ rather than just sitting in the 1900? Also curious, do your CFI/II/MEI ratings cost $25K or whatever GSI charges you for their 1900 program? At least you walk away with ratings that airlines look at with respect.

I finished my 250 hours as an FO at GIA shortly after 9/11, before the preferred hiring with Pinnacle (then Express 1) had begun. At that time GIA furloughed about 30 FOs, so I and the other people that started around the same time were not able to stay on after the 250 hours. Most of the others left to do other things (flight instruct, fly checks, etc...). Gulfstream offered me a job as a sim instructor, so I did that until the program with Pinnacle began. From my class at GIA, I was the only one that got an interview with Pinnacle. However, most of the people from the later GIA classes did get interviews. Pinnacle has hired well over 100 GIA pilots now.

For the record, I did end up getting my CFI while I was working as a sim instructor at GIA. Gulfstream Academy did pay for most of the training costs for that though. Gulfstream had me doing stage checks and working with Private and Commercial students that were having trouble. Although I found the time I spent sim and flight instructing to be a learning experience, it still didn't compare to the time spent flying the line in the 121 environment at GIA. I learned much more during that time than I did instructing.

As for the cost, when I went to GIA over 3 years ago the prices were much, much lower than they are now. I only paid 30k for everything including all of my ratings from Inst through CFI and the FO program. Now the FO program itself costs almost that much, but it was much different back then.

 

[AftCG182]

As someone who was burned by the thieves at Airline Training Academy, I feel qualified to offer a word of caution regarding PFT programs (or bridge programs). When you've completed the training, you're a very unemployable 400 hour Commercial pilot if something goes wrong with your "guaranteed" job... You'll be scraping your pennines together to add a CSEL to your ticket, getting your CFI, or in the worst of cases you'll be leaving the joys of aviation altogether with a really sour taste in your mouth. If conditions in the airline industry are right, a PFT (bridge) program could work. Just make sure that you're not dealing with an ex-Airline Training Academy salesman (recruiter) and be sure to have a "plan B" ready....just in case.

 

[blade230]

OK, everybody has a right to their own view, but to imply one has to CFI to deseve a job at an airline is a load of crap.

I did not flight instruct. I did many things to gain experience. I ferried aircraft in the Pacific Northwest, flew aircraft on floats for over a year, also in the Pacific Northwest, and in between the above 2 jobs, went through a FO program. I paid for this program with my own money, not my parents. When I started at my current airline, I was NOT a 500 hour wonder, I have significantly more time, and am a university graduate who has worked in several other professional fields, other than aviation. I also hold CFI ratings in Canada. I have 2 relatives at "Major" North American airlines, and 2 others who fly for "Majors" over seas. Not one of them flight instructed. One was in the Air Force, two flew in the bush like myself, and one was a cadet who's first commercial aircraft was a 747. Now that is a 250 hour wonder. He is now a check airman on a 777, with over 8,000 hours. One of them is at Alaska Airlines, and that company could care less about a flight instructor certificate. They do however, care about bush experience. Not all airlines give a sh#t about CFI ratings. Not to say that they are not valuable, because they are. But definately not a requirement.

Everybody gains their experience in different ways. I have many many good friends who either did, or are flight instructing. I respect their road, as they do mine. Why, because everybody does whatever makes them a better pilot, and gets them the experience needed to land a job. And if you want to equate the word whore'ing with salary earned; I earned WAY more than the average CFI flying in the bush, and made significantly more ferrying aircraft. But because I made more money than CFI's, I don't think I am any better of a pilot. That would be ignorant. But I do not think CFI's are better pilots just because they instructed.

Cheers,

 

[bobbysamd]

Flight instructing v. not flight instructing

Flight instructing is extremely valuable experience, and may well be the only entry-level job one can get out of school. But, no, one does not have to be a flight instructor to be deserving of an airline job.

Any legitimate employment in which you build experience and become qualified is what matters. If you can get a non-instructing flying job at 250 hours fresh out of flight school, more power to you. Most people cannot.