The Dreaded Training Contract

[Jpilot23]

The current company i work for had me sign a promisary note and it isn't forgiven untill a year is past. The amount that i have to pay if i leave is far more than it cost to train me. I may have a better job come around, and if that happens i want to take it. Has anyone here run into people with the same kindof problem? And if so, how did they delt with it? THANKS!!!

 

[LXJ31]

Usually that new job is just slightly better than the one you are in. A year is really not that long of a time anyway and considering the lead time on getting hired at that "next" job, you could conceivably start interviewing for another gig about 9 months after the signing date, or about the length of an NHL season. Without knowing specifics, unless that next job is throwing gear on G-V for $120k per annum, you are probably better off sticking it out with the training contract.

The larger question is, why are so eager to move on? When you interview at other jobs down the road, they may want to know why you left that job 4 or 5 months after getting hired. Most companies probably won't care, but some will.

 

[AZ Typed]

When a training contract is in place, part of your salary NEEDS to go towards a fund that could be used in the event you need out. Just like a personal emergency fund for your family, training contracts require emergency funds for the day you need to eject. It's real simple if folks spend 5 seconds doing some financial planning in this aviation business!

AZT

 

[CelticCitation]

You owe me

I don't think you read it very carefully, but by posting yet another thread about training contracts, you are liable to all who read it for the total amount of the training contract, multiplied by the number of posters who have previously posted the same thread. I'll take my payment in cash.

Training contracts are a reality in todays world. You are not forced to sign, there are a lot of jobs. If you like the job, sign it, if not, find another job. Sign the contract there instead. Or burn your previous employer so that they feel the need to put training contracts in to place.

I for one do not feel sorry for anyone who takes a job knowing there is a contract, and then gets in a position where they want to break it.

 

[Jpilot23]

Training contracts are a reality in todays world. You are not forced to sign, there are a lot of jobs. If you like the job, sign it, if not, find another job. Sign the contract there instead. Or burn your previous employer so that they feel the need to put training contracts in to place.

I for one do not feel sorry for anyone who takes a job knowing there is a contract, and then gets in a position where they want to break it.

wow its just that easy huh? there are thousands of jobs out there for you to get and just pick one that doesn't have a training contract.....brilliant!

I knew my bed when i made it, i'm just looking for a way to get out of it without paying, and continue on to a better job.

 

[CelticCitation]

My point exactly. Agree or not, contracts are everywhere. There is a long running thread on the charter line about it. You want out, either pay up, or lawyer up. I'm sure a lawyer would defend you to your last dime. How long do you have left?

 

[Jpilot23]

yeah i've got 7 months left. thats alot of seniority.

 

[Publishers]

The fact you want to jump ship so quickly is exactly what the training contract is there for. You are reinforcing the very thing you do not like. Would you have received the new offer without the training you just received??

 

[ultrarunner]

The current company i work for had me sign a promisary note and it isn't forgiven untill a year is past. The amount that i have to pay if i leave is far more than it cost to train me. I may have a better job come around, and if that happens i want to take it. Has anyone here run into people with the same kindof problem? And if so, how did they delt with it? THANKS!!!

Jpilot, if I were hiring and it came down to a person who was obligated financially to his/her current employer, I wouldn't hesitate to pay off a promissory note to bring on the person I wanted.

You might bring this up early in your conversations with a prospective employer. It would speak well of your ethics.

Good luck.

 

[MrPink1911]

ethics???

The guy just said that he knowingly signed a year contract and is planning on breaking it after 5 months..... It seems like the boat his "ethics" were on sailed long ago.......

 

[Way2Broke]

You can still interview and get hired somewhere and just swim in the pool until the contract is over.

 

[CelticCitation]

I predict he'll be paying off his training contract the same way he'll pay off his PFT student loans- night manager at a call center. Aviation quickly burns out the grass is greener types.

 

[bertengineer]

You are talking about getting seniority, but keep in mind that flight hours still are an important factor in getting the eventual upgrade. You might be with a regional for two years, but you will not have the numbers to upgrade, especially if the CAPT mins are 3000 hours. (9E)
If you are flying for AirNet, oh sorry, I mean for another 135 company, you are better off staying there for the 7 months and getting the potential 500 hours multi single pilot IFR (Unless you are getting the 208 which amounts to nothing!). If the guys that are flying the 208 think that the time will get them into FedEx because it is turbine, Think again.
Good luck on your decision. Also, when you go to training it will be two months before you start sitting reserve where you may only fly 30-40 hours a month away from home and commuting all of the time, unless you live in base.
Just wanted to give you something to think about before dumping the job you are at. Honestly I have been down that road, and I should have stayed to get all of the hours!

 

[Photoflight]

the nice thing about a contract is if you wanna leave then pay up and no hard feelings.

Also it might depend what state your in but I believe training contracts are illegal in many states and aren't worth the paper they're written on.

 

[avbug]

Jpilot, if I were hiring and it came down to a person who was obligated financially to his/her current employer, I wouldn't hesitate to pay off a promissory note to bring on the person I wanted.

You'd be in the minority...probably the reason you're not doing the hiring. Why spend money to pay off a pilots prior obligations...the obligations the pilot isn't willing to stand by after committing to them...to bring him on where he will likely do the same thing to you?

More than a few times I have had a good offer come up when I've been with an employer less than a year. Contract or not, if I shook hands and said I'd stay, I stay. I'll turn down that better offer because it's a matter of honor, and ethical integrity. Too little of that out there today.

Hiring a pilot who's breaking contract is like having an affair with a married person. You know the person is cheating. You know they are failing their single most important obligation in life, and yet you're willing to climb into bed with them anyway. Stupidity has it's limits. Most employers are smart enough to know that if you'll break a deal with another company to come to work, you'll do it again.

Integrity. Look it up.

 

[Heavy Set]

Stay for the full year and build your time. It is better to not burn bridges in this industry - that can come back to haunt you real fast...

 

[FlyingMoose]

One thng I notice is that some of the posters seem to have the opinion that signing a training contract is synonymous with a moral or ethical agreement/obligation to stay for that period of time. It's not IMHO, you are only agreeing to pay back training costs (or whatever is noted in the contract) if you leave during the term.

That being said, There is still two sides to the issue. I have always felt that any company that needs to use training contracts either is not financially responsible, not good at hiring the right employees, or is not a great place to work (salary, QOL, etc.) There is some reason that enough people have jumped ship within a year of employment to constitute the need.

Also, the training contract should cover both parties: if your salary, position, work conditions, base, pre-employment promises (lots of factors or conditions you could put in here) change then the contract should be void. That language should be in any legitimate contract. The employer has to have some interest at stake. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Captain Morgan]

What about those instances that the job looks great on paper, but once you get out there to actually work there on a day to day basis, you find out it's far from ideal. Most companies want you to sign a contract when you don't have any idea how the job really works. Most companies have skeletons in the closet that they don't want a prospective employee to see until it's too late and the ink has just dried.

 

[Say Again Over]

Do what you need to do, these training contracts are usually bs anyway, IMO your integrity has nothing to do with this question like others suggest, you are the one paying the bills, I have had to sign these contracts even when current and qualified, if an employer wants you to stay they will make conditions attractive to stay, period. Consider the guy that is working for some 135 operation and gets a call from Continental, if the lawyers knock on your door you can negotiate, otherwise I would not worry about it.

 

[Jpilot23]

thanks for the good and the bad comments. Ethics? trying to better myself. is that wrong? I'm not killing, stealing, beating or raping to do it. So whats the big deal? If the rolls where reversed and the company needed to get rid of me for the better of the company...i'm 100% confident that they would terminate our connection.

 

[Say Again Over]

Exactly! :beer:

 

[mtnmama]

I am about to finish a 2-year contract with my current employer... the job for some would've been a dream. And, on paper it is-- great pay, upgrade, never have to actually work, etc. In reality, the job wasn't what I thought it would be. Although many people have told me I could probably break the contract without incident, I have chosen to fufill the agreement I signed. My last day will be the day that contract ends, though-- I am not staying one extra day! What I learned from this: I will never sign a contract with any employer again. Good luck to you!

 

[Say Again Over]

Never is a long time, good luck to you!

 

[Galaxy]

thanks for the good and the bad comments. Ethics? trying to better myself. is that wrong? I'm not killing, stealing, beating or raping to do it. So whats the big deal? If the rolls where reversed and the company needed to get rid of me for the better of the company...i'm 100% confident that they would terminate our connection.

It is not so much about the ethics of a contract. Its about the quality person you are. In this day and age of internet you can ask a simple question here on FI about a company prior to interviewing and you will get the good, bad, and the ugly on them. Most companies that have contracts have them for a reason-folks take the training and run. Liklely this is a cause in management or working conditions that need to be corrected by management. Don't hold your breath on that one..
Fact is.. you researched this company, you applied, then interviewed and trained with them and even signed thier contract. Now 5 months into the job you want out. What it tells me if I were interviewing you and hired you I am taking the risk of sending you to get typed on a small jet because we don't do contracts-if you dont really want to be here then we dont want you here either. However after 5 months you feel you have mastered your position, your aircraft and there are no more challenges for you. I fear that if I sent you to school on a small jet it would not be long before you wanted to "better yourself" and move up to a larger jet. Now I get to go to the CEO and CFO and explain my decision in hiring you.
I have never heard of any company paying your obligation off to hire you. There are plenty of names in the resume stack without bills for me to pay.

"If the rolls where reversed and the company needed to get rid of me for the better of the company...i'm 100% confident that they would terminate our connection-"
This comment just screams that the company WOULD be better off without you...What are you giving to the company? Nothing?
I understand it might be a crappy job but why not make the best of it for the terms that you signed for. Be the best employee they have and when you leave they can then wonder why they can't retain quality employees like you instead of the ole' these pilot come and go, do the bare minimum and collect the check.
Good luck in your decision and remember that aviation is a small world-don't burn bridges..

 

[freighthumper]

thanks for the good and the bad comments. Ethics? trying to better myself. is that wrong? I'm not killing, stealing, beating or raping to do it. So whats the big deal? If the rolls where reversed and the company needed to get rid of me for the better of the company...i'm 100% confident that they would terminate our connection.

As far as ethics go...lying and breaking the contract counts as bad ethics.

 

[Jpilot23]

As far as ethics go...lying and breaking the contract counts as bad ethics.

when have i lyed? and who says that breaking a contract is bad ethics?

 

[slickmagneto]

the nice thing about a contract is if you wanna leave then pay up and no hard feelings.

Also it might depend what state your in but I believe training contracts are illegal in many states and aren't worth the paper they're written on.

There is a world of difference in a "Training Contract" vs. a "Promissory Note."

I'm not a Lawyer but I have two friends that were sued by their former employer and both friends lost in court on Promissory Notes. They told me it was the same as if they had gone to a bank and borrowed the money for any type of purchase. Two different judges ruled that it was a debt that had to be repayed.

A Training Contract may or may not be enforceable in certain states.

One is apples the other is oranges.
If you are serious about leaving I suggest you Run to the nearest lawyer and seek his advise. A judgement against you may keep you from being hired by any company because it will show up on your credit history.

 

[Publishers]

The art of professionalism is doing the right thing, the detailed thing, the best you can thing, when it is not a big deal and no one is watching.

 

[NW_Pilot]

Before I sign any contract I alway have a legal opinion done on the contract, contracts are negotiable! Alway leave an easy out that you can afford! Some great advice from people here.... You signed it stick with it! or full-fill it and buy it out. Make sure you get a recipet!!!

 

[freighthumper]

when have i lyed? and who says that breaking a contract is bad ethics?

When you signed the contract you said you would stay for 2 years, the second you leave before the contract is up you are a liar. Im sure if they have a contract they also asked you if you would stay for the duration of the contract face to face. Seeing that you got the job, im sure you told them yes. You did this as well as tell them you would stay by signing a legal(perhaps semi) document. This would show a lack of ethics on your part to any future potential employers. I would also be willing to bet that someone sometime has screwed them in a situation like this. Breaking a contract is not the way you want to make your resume stand out from the rest. Is this job oportunity THAT good? I seriously doubt it, especially if you are just trying to get into the regionals a little earlier.