The culture of the managment determines the safety level

[imacdog]

It looks to me that, the crew was distracting themselves with conversation during a very critical phase of flight. No one was flying the plane, ot someone would have seen the speed decaying. They should not have even been in the stall to begin with, but when they found themselves there, the Captain's recovery was not correct. Maybe he thought he was in a tail stall, maybe not, but he should have been paying attention to his airplane during the approach.

Watch the animation again - there was no extraneous conversation going on in the moments leading up to the approach. Both crewmembers were silent before the speed decay began.

 

[o2bflyn]

Watch the animation again - there was no extraneous conversation going on in the moments leading up to the approach. Both crewmembers were silent before the speed decay began.

So, they watch the airspeed bleed off like that???? That's even worse.

 

[imacdog]

Or didn't watch, as the case may be. Just don't make up stuff like "the crew was distracting themselves with conversation during a very critical phase of flight". That's the media's job.

 

[o2bflyn]

Or didn't watch, as the case may be. Just don't make up stuff like "the crew was distracting themselves with conversation during a very critical phase of flight". That's the media's job.

Were they talking at all about non flight related issues below 10,000 feet? Yes. Were they talking about non flight related issues when they should have been preparing for an approach at low altitude a mere 3 minutes before the crash? Yes.

That is critical phase of flight in my book. Stop making excuses for bad piloting, that's their parents job.

 

[CMRdvr]

Not reversible controls. I'm talking about aerodynamic forces that are so strong they force the elevator to the full up position and despite the pilot's attempts to push forward, the elevator remains in that condition.

Sorry. I missed what you were saying. I believe that the FDR records the forced applied to the controls via pressure transducers. A check of the FDR plot from the NTSB would show that. I can't say off the top of my head, but I believe they know the control column was deflected. The only way for that to happen in the Q400 would be the pilot doing it. The FDR plot will also describe the various inputs and outputs recorded prior to the data for reference. That would be a way to see if the elevator was forced or moved by the pilot.

 

[imacdog]

Were they talking at all about non flight related issues below 10,000 feet? Yes. Were they talking about non flight related issues when they should have been preparing for an approach at low altitude a mere 3 minutes before the crash? Yes.

That is critical phase of flight in my book. Stop making excuses for bad piloting, that's their parents job.

I'm not making excuses for their piloting. I'm just tired of all the "well they were violating sterile cockpit, that must be the cause!" bullcrap.

 

[400pilot]

The only way for that to happen in the Q400 would be the pilot doing it. The FDR plot will also describe the various inputs and outputs recorded prior to the data for reference. That would be a way to see if the elevator was forced or moved by the pilot.

I would submit that because the autopilot was on until the stall, the autopilot probably trimmed the nose full up. The shaker then disconnected the autopilot and the captain added power to recover causing the aircraft to pitch to the moon. I seriously doubt he could have overcome the control forces. The control column would have been full aft despite him pushing as hard as he could....

 

[jonjuan]

I would submit that because the autopilot was on until the stall, the autopilot probably trimmed the nose full up. The shaker then disconnected the autopilot and the captain added power to recover causing the aircraft to pitch to the moon. I seriously doubt he could have overcome the control forces. The control column would have been full aft despite him pushing as hard as he could....

Are you up to level 26 on MS flight sim 2010 yet?

 

[Mike Jenvey]

No idea of the Q400 flight characteristics, but the pitch & trim theory doesn't sound that half-baked - & note that the combination of low speed, autopilot trim & marked pitch up may have been major factors in the recent Turkish airline crash at Amsterdam Schipol airport (but no icing with this crash).

 

[gunfyter]

Yeah Mike. I know you are not recovering from any stall if the Citation X is out of trim ... nor will you land the airplane on anything but the nose gear if the trim is too forward. At least in the sim.... if the trim is out of the white arc.