The culture of the managment determines the safety level

[o2bflyn]

Next time you go fly trim your airplane for 100 knots with the autopilot disconnected then add 10000 shaft horsepower to it (remember turboprop not jet) and watch what happens. The aircraft will attempt to maintain 100 knots.
Add to that you've been awake since 0300 and it's now 2216.
They screwed up yes, but its not the only factor.

If I am paying attention to flying my plane, I don't ever LET it get to a stall. If I am tired from being up at 0300, I remove myself from the flight fatigued.

 

[Hogprint]

Next time you go fly trim your airplane for 100 knots with the autopilot disconnected then add 10000 shaft horsepower to it (remember turboprop not jet) and watch what happens. The aircraft will attempt to maintain 100 knots.
Add to that you've been awake since 0300 and it's now 2216.
They screwed up yes, but its not the only factor.

Good points. There will be many causal factors that will add to the whole on this accident. My question is what will the FAA and carriers do with the information learned?

How many accidents and lives lost will it take to change the rest rules?

 

[Mike Jenvey]

The NTSB animation has been posted on YouTube - which is better than the NTSB link, as you can replay critical segments easily.

All seems to be well until the gear is selected down & the speed starts to decay. The flap shows movement from 5 to Posn 10 (22:16:27) - it is difficult to tell from the animation how this affected the flightpath, but it seems coincidental with the stick shaker, although the rate speed of decay may have been increasing. The flap then shows being selected to Flap 5, then all the way up to Flap 0........ I've no idea of the stall recovery action for this type, but probably not appropriate??

I guess the prime factors & numerous causal factors will all be listed in due course...... I could only find the preliminary NTSB outline.

 

[brokeflyer]

managements number one concern is for safety, as long as it dont interfere with scheduling or a profit.

 

[pilotyip]

Safety/Management

managements number one concern is for safety, as long as it dont interfere with scheduling or a profit.

As it should be for without profit there is not airline or jobs. For example to be perfectly save pilot should only fly one leg per day. An airline elects to follow this ultra save procedure. It has to hire 4 times as many pilots to the same number of trips. To remain profitable it either has to raise prices above the competition or cut wages by 75%. There is an extremely delicate balance between safety, regulatory complience, and profitabilty. If you have the answers it is your duty, no in fact your obligation to step forward and save the industry.

 

[brokeflyer]

as far as im concerned, and you should be too, there is no balance between safety....

it's either safe or it's not. If i can do it safely then the plane moves and we make money. If not, then I get paid to make that choice.

 

[pilotyip]

Define safety?

as far as im concerned, and you should be too, there is no balance between safety....

it's either safe or it's not. If i can do it safely then the plane moves and we make money. If not, then I get paid to make that choice.

What is safety? How do you determine if the airplane is safe? If the company says it is safe, dispatch says it is save, and you elect to not fly why are you safer? Is it regulatory complience? Is it not flying, we would never have an accident if we did not fly. BTW still did not tell me how yo are going to come into management and make the airline more safe.

 

[Fozzy]

What is safety? How do you determine if the airplane is safe? If the company says it is safe, dispatch says it is save, and you elect to not fly why are you safer? Is it regulatory complience? Is it not flying, we would never have an accident if we did not fly. BTW still did not tell me how yo are going to come into management and make the airline more safe.

Are you drunk?

 

[brokeflyer]

i decide what is safe, and that's that. I would hope that you would know that. But you appear to just wanna try to fight with me. Maybe you shouldnt post anymore and just read and learn.

I've managed a very safe successful(in that order) dept many years ago before retireing.

 

[pilotyip]

of course not

Are you drunk?

Being drunk would not be safe while posting, I thought my questions were legitiment questions. Please define safety?

 

[gunfyter]

Safety is No Accident....

 

[pilotyip]

Can not prevent all accidents

Safety is No Accident....

"Safety is doing everything you can reasonably do to reduce the probability of an accident to the lowest acceptable level. You can not prevent all accidents." Source ICAO SMS Manual.

 

[brokeflyer]

and you elect to not fly why are you safer? Is it regulatory complience?

no, it's called experience.

And to the rest of that butthole full of bull$hit you sent me in the PM, doesn't even warrant a response from me.

good bye.

 

[pilotyip]

Hey be nice

no, it's called experience.

And to the rest of that butthole full of bull$hit you sent me in the PM, doesn't even warrant a response from me.

good bye.

Lots of experienced dead pilots out there, is that safety? Again for a pilot with "all the answers" you seen not to have any except "bull$hit"

 

[brokeflyer]

" If the company says it is safe, dispatch says it is save, and you elect to not fly why are you safer?"

the company and dispatch dont have the final say in what is safe. Who do you work for so I know who to worry about?

just keep doing what your doing and leave your a$$ hole attitude to others.

Dont bug me with a reply. You are done.

 

[Fozzy]

" If the company says it is safe, dispatch says it is save, and you elect to not fly why are you safer?"

Simple, because they are not pilots.
And if they happen to be a pilot, they are not the one with there a$$ in the seat.
Now go get a candy bar out of the vending machine and do your flight. uke:

 

[pilotyip]

You can be a save pilot and still die in an airplane

" If the company says it is safe, dispatch says it is save, and you elect to not fly why are you safer?"

the company and dispatch dont have the final say in what is safe. Who do you work for so I know who to worry about?

just keep doing what your doing and leave your a$$ hole attitude to others.

Dont bug me with a reply. You are done.

Ah! the wonders of FI, name calling, non-civil discussion, but your are a new poster you may work your way out of it. Got a couple guys who did it all right and safe, but still died. If they were safe, how come they died? Of course I guess landing and taking off from boats would not fit your definition of safe, would it now? Bug you any time I want, again you still have no answers. If it irritates you there is always the ignore list. BTW only God will determine when I am done.

 

[Fozzy]

BTW only God will determine when I am done.

Look out, Fischman may come calling.

 

[o2bflyn]

"Safety is doing everything you can reasonably do to reduce the probability of an accident to the lowest acceptable level. You can not prevent all accidents." Source ICAO SMS Manual.

Probably written by someone who has never strapped an airplane to his a$$. (ie. Lawyers)

I sincerely hope that does not show up on your tombstone..... (not the pizza)

 

[pilotyip]

Got a better one?

Probably written by someone who has never strapped an airplane to his a$$. (ie. Lawyers)

I sincerely hope that does not show up on your tombstone..... (not the pizza)

Since we are trying to discuss safety, something very dear to my heart, what is your definition of safety and how is it achieved?