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The Costa Citationair

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OHGOON said:
1108 has explained their legal position clearly and succinctly while Ricci just said "I'm a lawyer", whatever that is supposed to mean. How you can interpret their points as "looking out for themselves" is just so much unreasoned prejudice.

If you can't recognize that Ricci is just using his acquisition of CA as an opportunity to try to weaken the Union by playing one side off against the other, then you are dangerously misguided.

Your Union is standing up for you, there is no question about that. Both Flops and CA pilots are members of the 1108. Both pilot groups have a right to the same protections and service. It's the law, end of conversation.
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Yes!

But he said so much more. "I'm a lawyer and you are not." I'm superior and here's how.

Oh and since I'm a lawyer I know it's ok to violate federal law.

Huh?

:confused:
 
The 1108 needs to stand up and wage a all out war on Flops..They been way to passive way to long and they keep it up they will have a decertification vote kicking there butts right out the door..grow a pair 1108 its time to take the offensive so far the scores 3-0 Flops...

Score board dont lie!!!!
 
shanes123 said:
The 1108 needs to stand up and wage a all out war on Flops..They been way to passive way to long and they keep it up they will have a decertification vote kicking there butts right out the door..grow a pair 1108 its time to take the offensive so far the scores 3-0 Flops is losing

Score board dont lie!!!!
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Yep shure dont.

;)
 
Deal or No Deal?

I say again, deal or no deal? Is Kenn with two NNs that much of a wishy washy deal maker that he cannot make a decisive move or what? Will the salvage continue or is the massive hull of a once great vessel doomed for the smelter?

Mike mike mike mike mike, what day is it mike?
 
shanes123 said:
The 1108 needs to stand up and wage a all out war on Flops..They been way to passive way to long and they keep it up they will have a decertification vote kicking there butts right out the door..grow a pair 1108 its time to take the offensive so far the scores 3-0 Flops...

Score board dont lie!!!!
Click to expand...

You do realize that it's you and every other Flops and CA pilot that together make up the 1108. Until you realize, that it's you (yes, as in you personally) that needs to grow a pair by stepping up and finally supporting your Union. If you insist on waiting for others to carry your water you will continue to chase your own tail and Ricci will continue to laugh at you.

Paying your dues, grudgingly or otherwise is not "doing your share" any longer, not by a long shot! Ricci has drawn a line in the sand and is betting that we don't have the stones to cross it. By pissing and moaning about the Union not doing enough while safely hiding behind your keyboard, you are helping Ricci destroy your Union. Once it's gone, you will be back to truly being the Walmart of fractional flying.

If you want that, keep it up.
 
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OHGOON said:
You do realize that it's you and every other Flops and CA pilot that together make up the 1108. Until you realize, that it's you (yes, as in you personally) that needs to grow a pair by stepping up and finally supporting your Union. If you insist on waiting for others to carry your water you will continue to chase your own tail and Ricci will continue to laugh at you.

Paying your dues, grudgingly or otherwise is not "doing your share" any longer, not by a long shot! Ricci has drawn a line in the sand and is betting that we don't have the stones to cross it. By pissing and moaning about the Union not doing enough while safely hiding behind your keyboard, you are helping Ricci destroy your Union. Once it's gone, you will be back to truly being the Walmart of fractional flying.

If you want that, keep it up.
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That's been the unions argument and I agree there is no solidarity at flops..but the union leaders have been to passive they have been asked to play hard ball but they take the path of least resistance. If I as you state and only I handled it my way I would be fired and my union would not back me..as they haven't backed others that have played hardball.. So don't give me that I am the union bull******************** if I am the union then I would get every pilot to walk off the job and shut this place down til we got fair wages n working conditions.. But I would be the only one walking out so take ur union I crap and stick it up ur you know what..union leaders are elected for reason to represent the pilot group which is I well there not representing I and all the other pilots that are fed up..you elect your politicians to represent what you supposedly stand for you don't sit in congress or wherever and do it yourself. That's what your taxes are paying for just like my union dues are paying for union leaders to take time off and fight for me..I want a fight not tea n crumpets.. So I say again GROW A PAIR!!!!!!!
 
shanes123 said:
That's been the unions argument and I agree there is no solidarity at flops..but the union leaders have been to passive they have been asked to play hard ball but they take the path of least resistance. If I as you state and only I handled it my way I would be fired and my union would not back me..as they haven't backed others that have played hardball.. So don't give me that I am the union bull******************** if I am the union then I would get every pilot to walk off the job and shut this place down til we got fair wages n working conditions.. But I would be the only one walking out so take ur union I crap and stick it up ur you know what..union leaders are elected for reason to represent the pilot group which is I well there not representing I and all the other pilots that are fed up..you elect your politicians to represent what you supposedly stand for you don't sit in congress or wherever and do it yourself. That's what your taxes are paying for just like my union dues are paying for union leaders to take time off and fight for me..I want a fight not tea n crumpets.. So I say again GROW A PAIR!!!!!!!
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Your leaders are the ones who stuck their personal necks out to found your damn Union when you had nothing. They're not politicians and they are as fired up as you are. The only difference is they are not in a position to sound off the way you can on an anonymous board.

If you are fed up, then why aren't you getting involved? Why, in your mind, is the Union a separate entity from yourself? Why are the loudest mouths always the last to step up?

Case you haven't noticed, the time is now or never...
 
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ohgoon said:
your leaders are the ones who stuck their personal necks out to found your damn union when you had nothing. They're not politicians and they are as fired up as you are. The only difference is they are not in a position to sound off the way you can on an anonymous board.

If you are fed up, then why aren't you getting involved? Why, in your mind, is the union a separate entity from yourself? Why are the loudest mouths always the last to step up?

Case you haven't noticed, the time is now or never...
Click to expand...

not in a position to sound off????????? Really??????? Then exactly what position they in????? There the only ones in a position to sound off that's why they were voted in!!! Your post is the most ignorant post ever in flightinfo history??they need to be sounding off everyday and they need to get rid of those lawyers that totaly f upped the scope clause that allowed ricci to purchase flexjet and not have one of our pilots benefit from it??or is that i fault too should i have done something to stop it??? Shouls i have written scope myself??? (i shoulda of woulda been done better then what we ended up with) why don't you take responsibilty for this unions short coming??? Instead of blaming i all you guys are doing is turning this pilot group against the inion and ricci will be getting his decertification vote as he planned..
 
Dude proof read your post before posting.
 
shanes123 said:
Your post is the most ignorant post ever in flightinfo history??
Click to expand...

This is why I love reading Flightinfo! Dude calls out another guy for his (supposed) ignorance, then proceeds to write a post that looks like it was written by a 3rd grade ESL student. Classic!
 
shanes123 said:
Hey Dude..I just fired it off quickly sorry you didn't like the grammar Dude...maybe you should do some proof reading yourself Dude.. Dude!!! What a smoke..you a options pilot also DUDE
Click to expand...
Let me rephrase. Sir, you might consider proof reading before you touch "Submit reply".
 
I'm reading these post and I've gotta ask Options and Shares pilots, who do you work for...your respective companies or are you just agents of 1108?


For what it's worth, I hope the pilots at Citationair land on their feet. All of you that I've met on the road have been class acts! If Flex is in business long enough to hire, we would be fortunate if you guys chose us.
 
shanes123 said:
not in a position to sound off????????? Really??????? Then exactly what position they in????? There the only ones in a position to sound off that's why they were voted in!!! Your post is the most ignorant post ever in flightinfo history??they need to be sounding off everyday and they need to get rid of those lawyers that totaly f upped the scope clause that allowed ricci to purchase flexjet and not have one of our pilots benefit from it??or is that i fault too should i have done something to stop it??? Shouls i have written scope myself??? (i shoulda of woulda been done better then what we ended up with) why don't you take responsibilty for this unions short coming??? Instead of blaming i all you guys are doing is turning this pilot group against the inion and ricci will be getting his decertification vote as he planned..
Click to expand...

Yes, they are not in a position to loose their cool and unlike yourself scream like a teenage girl. They could be sued which is why besides a lot of other reasons they can't fire their lawyers either. Are you really this dimwitted to have to be told that?

If you had any leadership experience yourself, you would know that there has to be a big gap between what can be wisely said in public vs how they really feel privately. (For instance, most would probably love to see you gone but publicly they will fight to protect your job.)

Now I realize that reality is not your strong suit, but even you have to realize that actually voting the Teamsters out at this point is akin to committing suicide. Your attitude is exactly what Ricci is trying to provoke and is counting on. Congratulations on being predictable...:erm:
 
OHGOON said:
Yes, they are not in a position to loose their cool and unlike yourself scream like a teenage girl. They could be sued which is why besides a lot of other reasons they can't fire their lawyers either. Are you really this dimwitted to have to be told that?

If you had any leadership experience yourself, you would know that there has to be a big gap between what can be wisely said in public vs how they really feel privately. (For instance, most would probably love to see you gone but publicly they will fight to protect your job.)

Now I realize that reality is not your strong suit, but even you have to realize that actually voting the Teamsters out at this point is akin to committing suicide. Your attitude is exactly what Ricci is trying to provoke and is counting on. Congratulations on being predictable...:erm:
Click to expand...

Here's the reality. Ricci s has played the 1108 like a fiddle. He has delivered blow after blow with no retalition and made the 1108 look like a bunch of goons. ( hence you're screen name ) the pilot group is losing faith quickly in their representation. Just as ricci wants. The outcome of the union will be the reality you are so in touch with. Proof read that!!! I'm done!!!! Dude
 
shanes123 said:
Here's the reality. Ricci s has played the 1108 like a fiddle. He has delivered blow after blow with no retalition and made the 1108 look like a bunch of goons. ( hence you're screen name ) the pilot group is losing faith quickly in their representation. Just as ricci wants. The outcome of the union will be the reality you are so in touch with. Proof read that!!! I'm done!!!! Dude
Click to expand...

So cranky and negative. Did you forget to take your meds again?

But you didn't answer my question. Weren't you fired from Options years ago?
 
hammer2 said:
I'm reading these post and I've gotta ask Options and Shares pilots, who do you work for...your respective companies or are you just agents of 1108?
Click to expand...

I work for myself and for my family. Period. I don't buy into the corporate "family" crap any more than the Union "brotherhood" crap. And I put my trust in whichever organization I believe will further the interests of myself and my family the best.

Once upon a time I put my trust in a corporation called RTA, and was rewarded with broken promises. Then I put my trust in a corporation called Flight Options (and its leader Kenn Ricci), and was rewarded with broken promises.

Now I trust the 1108 more than the Company. This is because I see the 1108 leadership working as hard as they can to further my interests, against discouraging odds and ridiculously pro-corporation labor laws, and being opposed and maligned at every opportunity by that same corporation that broke their promises and "moved my cheese" more times than I care to count.

Obviously, in the few years since our Local was chartered we have not made much progress in the all-important areas of pay and benefits. Those suck at Options. But that is due to the stubbornness of Options management and the tepid support of about a third of our pilot group, not due to any lack of effort by the 1108.
 
Fresh Air has a point but I disagree with him slightly. Uncle Kenn wasn't that bad to work for. He is very anti union and paternalistic but in general his defense to union drives was to keep the pay and working conditions good enough to keep the union off the doorstep. That being said when Raytheon pushed him out and took over Options the pain became quickly became intolerable and the 1108 came on property. The lesson is in aviation you need a union because the guy you are working for today that treats you pretty well may not be the guy you are working for tomorrow. After Mother Raytheon handed me huge increases in my health insurance premium for less coverage and tried to drop my wife's coverage, a VP of flight Ops that in my unprofessional opinion is a pathological liar, crappy crew meals, crappy hotels, scheduling that ran us all into the ground and wouldn't reason with any of us I learned. It turned this generally conservative, anti union guy into a dues paying MIG. If you don't have a union, get one because stuff changes fast. If you have one, support it. If you don't like the direction of your union, run for office or at least become active supporting a candidate for leadership. A union isn't a thing unto itself. It is made up of the pilot group and is only as strong or weak as the membership and the will of that membership. If you just bitch and bellyache about the union without getting involved or offering solutions to the problems you are giving management the ability to strong arm you. It's your union if you don't like it get involved and work to change it.
 
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Nice post, Ghetto. I would probably see things from your point of view completely if I had been around for the (pre-merger) "good times" at Options when you were the highest paid, enjoyed fast upgrades and growth, there was hope for the future, and Kenn was everyone's friend. I came too late for that, and have seen little except take-aways, so my view is a bit more jaded.
 
Rumors

Rumors abound as the dude abides. Heard on the street 6 airframes are about to be cut from the fleet. As the ship is prepared to tug to salvage, I'll bet the Captain is still hiding from view refusing to make a statement cowering behind his office door.

Will there be furloughs and downgrades or will the ranks be left to rot through attrition and atrophy?

So sorry to see you go.
 
WheresRocky said:
Rumors abound as the dude abides. Heard on the street 6 airframes are about to be cut from the fleet. As the ship is prepared to tug to salvage, I'll bet the Captain is still hiding from view refusing to make a statement cowering behind his office door.

Will there be furloughs and downgrades or will the ranks be left to rot through attrition and atrophy?

So sorry to see you go.
Click to expand...

Seems to me you already know the answers to your questions. Tool.
 
Rocky, your a class act. I will let the 250 pilots and their family's at CitationAir know that you wish them well. Taking joy in other people's misery is called Schadenfreude, it is most often exhibited by people with low self-esteem.
 
shanes123 said:
not in a position to sound off????????? Really??????? Then exactly what position they in????? There the only ones in a position to sound off that's why they were voted in!!! Your post is the most ignorant post ever in flightinfo history??they need to be sounding off everyday and they need to get rid of those lawyers that totaly f upped the scope clause that allowed ricci to purchase flexjet and not have one of our pilots benefit from it??or is that i fault too should i have done something to stop it??? Shouls i have written scope myself??? (i shoulda of woulda been done better then what we ended up with) why don't you take responsibilty for this unions short coming??? Instead of blaming i all you guys are doing is turning this pilot group against the inion and ricci will be getting his decertification vote as he planned..
Click to expand...


Punctuation.
 
outerfix said:
Taking joy in other people's misery is called Schadenfreude, it is most often exhibited by people with low self-esteem.
Click to expand...

With a little schizophrenia mixed into the cocktail. Your losing it rocky, what happened to the sinking ship theme - couldn't you find a link to the Titanic movie soundtrack.

Beware the karma.
 
I know of 6 pilots coming off the seniority list within these last 2 weeks. Hopefully all can find something else before being put on the street. ( well, except for the managament minions and Kool-Aid drinkers )
 

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