The Costa Citationair

[rigger]

Man I sure ramble.....I must be getting old as hell!

 

[OHGOON]

It's hard to explain to you cause I know you don't comprehend true freedom.

Yes, just because I disagree with your right wing twisto propaganda I must not understand your precious "true freedom". Arrogant with no facts and or personal experience, spoken like a true Ditto-head....

The military you make a choice to have someone tell you what to do and how to do it. Congress? You are kidding right? No one tells them what to do, they are in congress to tell you what to do.....

Proving you don't even know what socialism actually is. It's not about who tells you what to do but rather it's a form of economic organization where people cooperate to make their lot in life better rather than just seeing everyone as their competitor and therefore mortal enemy. I think you confuse socialism with Dictatorship. They're not the same nor are they mutually exclusive. I suggest reading up a bit about what the terms you use mean before spouting off. Other than that, you missed my argument completely. The military and Congress have a form of..."wait for it"...Socialized Medicine.....keep breathing now, I know it's hard on you, facts are so new and unusual... Both government organizations have this and like it, that was my point.

As for the countries listed.......really that's the best you can do? Eveyone of them have people standing in line to come to America......at well that was the case not as much any more you see these countries have tried the experiment for many many years and contrary to your believe they are not doing so well.....

LOL, that is the best laugh I've had in a year. Everyone of the countries I listed have better and more comprehensive health care than the US does. It also costs them less. I picked them for a reason, but since I could count on you not to check the actual facts, you fell for it hook line and sinker....Yup, there are tons of Swedes, Norwegians and Danes just dying to get to the US and have their quality of life ruined and their life expectancy lowered (before you go off again, look it up for yourself). Did you notice how many of them are standing around your local Home Depot looking for work? Yup the Scandinavian voting block swung heavily in this last election, that is why Obama now must put Swedish Meatballs and Ikea furniture in the White House everywhere... Really, you have got to come up for air at some point and look around. It's no longer 1950 where everyone wants to come to the US. We were truly number one then, now not so much except on Fox News where they happily peddle that myth to anyone who has trouble with facts...

other then Canada, but if you look real close you will see Canada is much less socialist then the others mentioned....they also embraced.....wait for it....... Tax cuts and lower business taxes to STIMULATE GROWTH.......wait what did they get?????? GROWTH!!!!!! What a concept let people decide where to spend THIER MONEY and wham ......the economy does better.....but they have government healthcare....woooo hooooo 8 moths to get a procedure a lack of dr's ( I have to go 80 miles to get a dr. Cause non closer are taking patients) so I go 5 miles to the USA pay cash and get seen today!!!!! Course I can pay cash in Canada also and get seen at a walkin clinic cause the government won't let dr's have a " private practice" and see people.....that would be bad to actually make money on people who need your services......care for me to go on about what your nuervana is going to be bringing you.......

Nope, you can stop now...nothing here to see or learn from. Just a rant from a severely misinformed person. Makes me wonder if everyone in the Fox Noise world knows that same one Canadian that hates their healthcare, because I have family there and I have never met anyone North of our border willing to trade our bs, "let's let em die because there is no profit in it" medical care nightmare for what they get. They pay their taxes and everyone gets affordable quality healthcare. We pay our taxes and we get our military to turn rubble into sand for whatever jingoistic reasons to the tune of $500 billion before it's all said and done. Yup, I see why they would love to trade.

Now the cool thing called AMERICA was actually formed to get away from the socialist mindset that is Europe.....

Oh my that is just precious. The US was actually formed as a reaction to perceived unfair taxation by a KING, socialism would not even be invented for another 100 years or so by a German dude named Karl Marx. See again you confuse Dictatorship with socialism. King George was not a socialist and no one had a socialist mindset back then except for maybe the founding fathers who actually dared to cooperate together for the common good in order to form a more "perfect union".

 

[OHGOON]

Man I sure ramble.....I must be getting old as hell!

Couldn't agree more, time to retire?? Enjoy a little of that hard won socialism of Medicare & Social Security...

You've earned it and the rest of us might breath a little easier to see you take command of that golf cart permanently.

 

[flyzimex]

LOL, that is the best laugh I've had in a year. Everyone of the countries I listed have better and more comprehensive health care than the US does. It also costs them less. I picked them for a reason, but since I could count on you not to check the actual facts, you fell for it hook line and sinker....Yup, there are tons of Swedes, Norwegians and Danes just dying to get to the US and have their quality of life ruined and their life expectancy lowered (before you go off again, look it up for yourself). Did you notice how many of them are standing around your local Home Depot looking for work? Yup the Scandinavian voting block swung heavily in this last election, that is why Obama now must put Swedish Meatballs and Ikea furniture in the White House everywhere... Really, you have got to come up for air at some point and look around. It's no longer 1950 where everyone wants to come to the US. We were truly number one then, now not so much except on Fox News where they happily peddle that myth to anyone who has trouble with facts...

As a Swede who has lived in the US during four separate periods for a total of nine years I have decided to give up on the "American dream" and move back eastward. The sad part is I have what's considered a pretty good job here in the US, which really doesn't say much these days. America is a great country in many ways, however I have just come to the conclusion that my values differ too much for me to lead the life that I want. Despite the "socialistic communist" (not my words) who was just reelected.

I am sure there are guys here who will say they will be happy to see this foreigner (me) get out of here so an American can take my job. In not too long I hope I can make their wish come true. Just remember, this country was built by foreigners like me not too long ago.

This will be my first and last post in this thread as I don't normally engage in political discussions online. No one ever wins.


Happy flying..

 

[clueless]

This is true. There was recently a news story where a Denny's raised their prices 5% ... and itemized the increase on the restaurant check as an ObamaCare surcharge.

Most businesses won't itemize like that and people won't know the consequences of voting for Socialism ... but these customers see ObamaCare costs right on their bill.

It was a single franchisee, who owns multiple Denny's in the southeast. It didn't work out so well for him or for other Denny's owners, who were victims of customer backlash because of one rouge owner's comments.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...ex+(Daily+Kos)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

 

[OHGOON]

Earth to rigger

Where are you?? We miss you so.

 

[OHGOON]

Most businesses won't itemize like that and people won't know the consequences of voting for Socialism ... but these customers see ObamaCare costs right on their bill.

Can you explain why providing decent Healthcare for everyone is socialism but ridiculously bloated government spending on the Pentagon/military is not?

Seems there is socialism everywhere and the US has done quite well despite or even because of it throughout the years, having the "best military" in the world and all.

 

[gunfyter]

Can you explain why providing decent Healthcare for everyone is socialism but ridiculously bloated government spending on the Pentagon/military is not?

Seems there is socialism everywhere and the US has done quite well despite or even because of it throughout the years, having the "best military" in the world and all.

Certainly I can. Providing for the National Defense is Constitutional and the primary purpose of federal government. Providing for healthcare is not.

 

[CE750Driver]

As a Swede who has lived in the US during four separate periods for a total of nine years I have decided to give up on the "American dream" and move back eastward. The sad part is I have what's considered a pretty good job here in the US, which really doesn't say much these days. America is a great country in many ways, however I have just come to the conclusion that my values differ too much for me to lead the life that I want. Despite the "socialistic communist" (not my words) who was just reelected.

I am sure there are guys here who will say they will be happy to see this foreigner (me) get out of here so an American can take my job. In not too long I hope I can make their wish come true. Just remember, this country was built by foreigners like me not too long ago.

This will be my first and last post in this thread as I don't normally engage in political discussions online. No one ever wins.


Happy flying..

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

I have a feeling you will never leave, or crawl back with some excuse.

 

[G4dude]

As a Swede who has lived in the US during four separate periods for a total of nine years I have decided to give up on the "American dream" and move back eastward. The sad part is I have what's considered a pretty good job here in the US, which really doesn't say much these days. America is a great country in many ways, however I have just come to the conclusion that my values differ too much for me to lead the life that I want. Despite the "socialistic communist" (not my words) who was just reelected.

I am sure there are guys here who will say they will be happy to see this foreigner (me) get out of here so an American can take my job. In not too long I hope I can make their wish come true. Just remember, this country was built by foreigners like me not too long ago.

This will be my first and last post in this thread as I don't normally engage in political discussions online. No one ever wins.


Happy flying..

Sweden is a very nice place too. Good luck in your home country, did you find a good job there?

 

[jonjuan]

Certainly I can. Providing for the National Defense is Constitutional and the primary purpose of federal government. Providing for healthcare is not.

If goon is smart, he'll leave the discussion now.

 

[Sandhawk]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

I have a feeling you will never leave, or crawl back with some excuse.

+1

:beer:

 

[gret]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

I have a feeling you will never leave, or crawl back with some excuse.

Not very classy and it is doubtful that your ancestors that came to this country would be proud of your comments...

flyzimex...good luck with whatever path you choose.

 

[OHGOON]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

I have a feeling you will never leave, or crawl back with some excuse.

Wow, now that is an accomplishment in self-revelatory embarrasment!

This comment exemplifies why US Citizens are so beloved outside of our borders and so many expats now travel exclusively with their non US passports when abroad..

BTW: How did you come up with your handle? Was TeenyWeeny taken??

 

[OHGOON]

Certainly I can. Providing for the National Defense is Constitutional and the primary purpose of federal government. Providing for healthcare is not.

Actually was looking for an answer to my question and not another Cavutoesque soundbite, but if we must:

Let's see; by your logic then, the moon landings must be socialism because those too were not a "primary" purpose of the Feds in the Constitution.

Federal Highways, socialism, not mentioned in that 1780's doc.

CDC and ATC have to be immediately abandoned too because Washington, Jefferson and Company did not mention them either..

Wow this list of non Constitutional things could get pretty lengthy.

You "Strict Constructionists" are very entertaining.

All aboard, the train for the stone age is leaving the Reality Station at any moment now...

 

[OHGOON]

If goon is smart, he'll leave the discussion now.

I'm a pilot, how smart could I possibly be?:laugh:

 

[gunfyter]

Actually was looking for an answer to my question and not another Cavutoesque soundbite, but if we must:

Let's see; by your logic then, the moon landings must be socialism because those too were not a "primary" purpose of the Feds in the Constitution.

Federal Highways, socialism, not mentioned in that 1780's doc.

CDC and ATC have to be immediately abandoned too because Washington, Jefferson and Company did not mention them either..

Wow this list of non Constitutional things could get pretty lengthy.

You "Strict Constructionists" are very entertaining.

All aboard, the train for the stone age is leaving the Reality Station at any moment now...

No, by my logic taking property (by force) from people who it belongs to and giving it to other people to whom it does not belong is socialism.

Providing for the "general welfare" as perhaps the CDC does or Highways do is general welfare. Giving people free stuff like health care "Individual welfare" and therefore Socialism.

 

[OHGOON]

No, by my logic taking property (by force) from people who it belongs to and giving it to other people to whom it does not belong is socialism.

Providing for the "general welfare" as perhaps the CDC does or Highways do is general welfare. Giving people free stuff like health care "Individual welfare" and therefore Socialism.

I had no idea that Sweden was such a violent place. Imagine that, taking their hard earned meatballs at gunpoint and giving them away. :nuts:

Have you ever tried to look up the definition of socialism somewhere like Wikipedia? Let me help you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

I apologize that it's not as sexy as a five second soundbite from Fixed Noise Network but facts are messier by nature and usually take a little longer.

Now back to our little corner of the world. How exactly is one type of government spending good and right (military budget) and another (healthcare) bad and wrong or "socialism."

Please try explain this time without hiding behind holy documents like the Constitution, Bible etc. I have copies of both at home, but like the phone book, it's not daily reading material..

Thank you

 

[gunfyter]

Right ... you rely on Wikipedia... :laugh:

I rely upon:

Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis
It is the definitive refutation of nearly every type of socialism ever devised... a wide-ranging analysis of society, comparing the results of socialist planning with those of free-market capitalism in all areas of life.

Socialism always involves force. If not, we wouldn't be forcing people to pay for Obama Care. That's why its wrong... taking other people's property to give to others. We don't take some people's property to give to others when running the military or building roads or running the CDC.

It also doesn't work ... the law does nothing to increase the supply of Doctors. But it increases the Demand for Doctors by subsidizing use of their services. When you increase Demand without increasing the
supply you always get Higher Costs. Its a plan doomed to failure....

 

[BlueNose]

I'm a pilot, how smart could I possibly be?:laugh:

Maybe you should just go relax and enjoy a Twinkie. Oh wait, never mind.

 

[OHGOON]

Maybe you should just go relax and enjoy a Twinkie. Oh wait, never mind.

Hahahah...oh wait never mind.:0

 

[OHGOON]

Right ... you rely on Wikipedia... :laugh:

I rely upon:
Socialism always involves force. If not, we wouldn't be forcing people to pay for Obama Care. That's why its wrong... taking other people's property to give to others. We don't take some people's property to give to others when running the military or building roads or running the CDC.

It also doesn't work ... the law does nothing to increase the supply of Doctors. But it increases the Demand for Doctors by subsidizing use of their services. When you increase Demand without increasing the
supply you always get Higher Costs. Its a plan doomed to failure....

Yes of course, Wikipedia, so laughable, but relying solely on theories expoused by one very biased character who at times in his life was associated with the John Birch society and acted as an apologist for European fascism, is supposed to be taken seriously? Sorry, just can't follow you there, nice try though.

How exactly is Obamacare forcing anything on you or others? Why is that different than paying for the military or the CDC? Both items in the Federal Budget are paid with Federal Tax Dollars. Why is Healthcare in your mind forcefully taken from you while military spending is not? Looks to be the exact same process. Federal Tax Dollars are spent on both items. Hence my original question, which you have so far artfully dodged. How is one considered good and constitutional and the other bad and "socialistic?"

It would be so helpful if you actually attempted to justify your prejudicial preferences before drowning yourself in meaninglessly self serving propaganda.

 

[G4dude]

I had no idea that Sweden was such a violent place. Imagine that, taking their hard earned meatballs at gunpoint and giving them away. :nuts:

Have you ever tried to look up the definition of socialism somewhere like Wikipedia? Let me help you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

I apologize that it's not as sexy as a five second soundbite from Fixed Noise Network but facts are messier by nature and usually take a little longer.

Now back to our little corner of the world. How exactly is one type of government spending good and right (military budget) and another (healthcare) bad and wrong or "socialism."

Please try explain this time without hiding behind holy documents like the Constitution, Bible etc. I have copies of both at home, but like the phone book, it's not daily reading material..

Thank you

The problem isn't violence, it is the fact that the State is the only entity legally empowered to use force against the citizens. This is why you have to be careful what you have the State do. Some things the State should do, but many areas are much better served by the private sector, or local or state government, usually the more local the more efficacious.
The Constitution is important because it is the rule book designed to make sure charismatic people are not given too much power by the people, which power then being inherited by less virtuous folks, by which time the State function under discussion is irreversible. This explains the reference to "a nation of laws, not of men."

 

[dustrpilot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFALonjLay0&sns=em

A little one the long side, but well worth watching.

 

[gunfyter]

Yes of course, Wikipedia, so laughable, but relying solely on theories expoused by one very biased character who at times in his life was associated with the John Birch society and acted as an apologist for European fascism, is supposed to be taken seriously? Sorry, just can't follow you there, nice try though.

How exactly is Obamacare forcing anything on you or others? Why is that different than paying for the military or the CDC? Both items in the Federal Budget are paid with Federal Tax Dollars. Why is Healthcare in your mind forcefully taken from you while military spending is not? Looks to be the exact same process. Federal Tax Dollars are spent on both items. Hence my original question, which you have so far artfully dodged. How is one considered good and constitutional and the other bad and "socialistic?"

It would be so helpful if you actually attempted to justify your prejudicial preferences before drowning yourself in meaninglessly self serving propaganda.

Who is this individual you are talking about? Mises was a classical Liberal. Today what we call Libertarian ... Not a fascist. Fascism is a brand of Socialism.

I've answered your question several times. Obama Care steals money from people and gives it to other people. That's different from Defense and CDC. Those do not steal money to give to others.

[SIZE=+1]Vladimir Lenin: “Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State.”[/SIZE]

“Would socialized medicine lead to socialization of other phases of life? Lenin thought so. He declared socialized medicine is the keystone to the arch of the socialist state.”
1945 AMA Pamphlet Warning

 

[Sparse]

BTW Sparse, since that "change it back" thing didn't quite work out, can we expect a new and improved avatar anytime soon?
:beer:

Ok Goon here it is. In four years I will be a fully retired aviator, living off my full SS, medicare/obamacare, enjoying my lump sum retirement and you will be paying for it.

Fast Forward is my new motto.

 

[Smooth Cruz]

how is citationair doing now?

 

[Sparse]

how is citationair doing now?

Huge question mark. The half glass full side would say in theory we can make it in the business model CA is pursuing but changes are coming in pay, schedule, and QoL. The half glass empty side would say that we will be shuttered in about a year. Neither scenario looks good.

 

[OHGOON]

Ok Goon here it is. In four years I will be a fully retired aviator, living off my full SS, medicare/obamacare, enjoying my lump sum retirement and you will be paying for it.

Fast Forward is my new motto.

I like it!

You forgot the blue background & the donkey though.

BTW: All of us pay for your & everyone else's stuff, just a matter of how & when. Not really that shocking or horrible. It's called civilization.

Hope you'll be able to enjoy your retirement for a long time.
:beer:

 

[OHGOON]

Who is this individual you are talking about? Mises was a classical Liberal. Today what we call Libertarian ... Not a fascist. Fascism is a brand of Socialism.

Sorry, I looked up your hero's bio. He was associated with the John Birch Society & he was a longtime apologist for European fascism. He may be an old "liberal" ie. libertarian, but that does not make the man any cleaner about his obviously racist world views.

I've answered your question several times. Obama Care steals money from people and gives it to other people. That's different from Defense and CDC. Those do not steal money to give to others.

Repeating the same thing over and over again still does not answer my question. Both the military and Obamacare receive Tax Dolllars. So once again why is a program that directly benefits civilians considered socialistic while the military is doing the same but somehow that type of spending is different. I for one see my Tax Dollars forcibly misspent on unnecessary and illegal wars while taking care of all citizen's health preventively through public access is somehow seen as evil. Both budget items are paid by Federal Tax Dollars. They are the same except obviously in your mind, therefore I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why?