The Brits show Americans the way. STRIKE!

[A-V-8]

Another thing the RLA does is prevent management from unilaterally imposing new work rules / pay rates on the very day that the contract is amendable, and forces them to go through the bargaining process or the court system in bankruptcy to obtain concessions.

Maybe on paper but Crew tracking at Mesa makes up new rules every day. Before you ask me or tell me to file a GIR I will be happy to send you a screen shot of all of my pending GIRs. Just PM your email to me.

 

[mesaserf]

Don't you think we could get it amended drastically in our favor with a democratic pres, a majority in the house and a filabuster proof majority in the Senate? Seems like it to me. Maybe not everything, but a lot more than now.

While the dems won't likely support us, I can't imagine they will WORK AGAINST US and therefore anger labor at large (outside of aviation) in time for the 2010 elections.

Thoughts?

Well for starters The Big O and the majority Dem’s let organized labors attempt at amending the secret ballot vote initiative die on the table. More than likely they will also let the modifications allowing a simple majority vote for unionization die too. (That is, as of now an unreturned vote card is considered a “NO” vote for union representation.)

By his actions and not his words our would-be savoir of the common man has shown us exactly whom he takes his marching orders from.

And it sure as hell isn’t us.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

You are welcome to leave and go live somewhere else.

Actively trying to, thank you.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, I understand what you're saying, however, contrary to popular belief, it's almost impossible for a non US citizen to come to flying school over here and get anything other than a non-extendable 2 year work visa to build experience as a flight instructor. There's practically no chance of getting a green card / citizenship without marrying a US citizen. No different to the situation in Europe. I know many who have tried and failed. I also know 2 Americans who married Brits just to obtain UK residency and then divorced as soon as their papers came through.

I totally agree with you that Cabotage / Open Skies is a bad idea for labor. Good luck with the Arbitration, there are lots of FL pilots hoping you get reinstated.

Admittedly, I haven't talked to anyone who's tried the EU to US move in about a decade (we had quite a few at the old Express One, especially with E-net). Too bad there aren't more jobs with great career potential in both countries to worry more about it... Maybe in a decade or so.

Thanks for the kind words, hope to be back in class in the next 6 months and join you guys back out on the picket lines until we get a contract worth making this a career, not just the pit stop that management wants it to be for us.

 

[saabservant]

I don't think alpa representation is interested in amending the RLA. It is a great guarantee of employment for them....endless negotiations.

 

[Smash312]

And what are the atlernatives? Oh yeah...


And get fined Millions of dollars for your union, and have the "me" people cross the picket lines anyway.

We'll definitely keep fighting the fight, but unless the Brits want to allow us to apply to THEIR companies just like THEY can apply to OURS, or can figure out a way to force our government to change the RLA just as they want to force our government to change Cabotage and Open Skies laws, then no, they aren't showing us anything useful at all.

Errrr.... how can Brits apply to YOUR airlines exactly? Unless they're permanent residents or citizens of the US they can't last time I checked. Don't be fooled, there are Americans who fly for BA, Ryanair and EasyJet. You just don't know of them.

 

[flygirlqt]

My post was not intended that the rla needs to be thrown out, but amended. There has to be some process to allow self help at some point. This in itself is weighted against labor with the endless time frame the nmb is allowed to park negotiations.

I do not believe ALPA has any desire to change the status quo either. ALPA is in my opinion a failed organization when it comes to representation.

 

[jonjuan]

Strike declared illegal by British court

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8418805.stm

British Airways cabin crew strike illegal, court rules


A strike by British Airways cabin crew planned for Christmas has been declared illegal in a High Court ruling.
The court agreed with BA that the cabin crew's union, Unite, had not correctly balloted its members on the strike action.
The injunction means that the 12-day strike cannot now go ahead.
Unite called it "a disgraceful day for democracy" and vowed to hold a fresh ballot of cabin crew if the dispute with BA was not resolved.
British Airways said the decision would be welcomed by "hundreds of thousands of families in the UK and around the world".
"There was never any need for a strike and we hope that Unite will take this opportunity to reflect before deciding its next steps," a statement from the company said.
"In recent days, we believe Unite has formed a better understanding of our position and of the ways in which we could move forward.
"It has also become very clear that our customers do not believe that old-style trade union militancy is relevant to our efforts to move British Airways back toward profitability."
Unite's joint general secretaries, Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley said the dispute was "far from settled".
"While we have never wanted this dispute, it is a disgraceful day for democracy when a court can overrule such an overwhelming decision by employees taken in a secret ballot," they said.
"The fact remains that this dispute is not settled.
"BA must accept that there can be no resolution except through negotiation, failing which there will inevitably be a further ballot for industrial action."

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Why can't we just be part of the "free market" and influence it the way Wall Street and bad management does all the time. Rid the "free market" of the artificial environment imposed by the RLA, let us fall under the same NLRA rules as school teachers, cops, and garbage men. When the contract expires, it's expired baby. Time to light up some 55 gallon drums, eat takeout, and bust heads of any schlub willing to take a 2x4 upside the head for trying to collect the trash...er I mean fly the air machine. The RLA is sham legislation originally designed to keep those uppity railroad unions from disrupting the profit pipeline. It has NOTHING to do with national interest.

Pilot-sheep need to toss off the starched white collar professional BS and realize that conflict is the only way to get what they want; a bigger slice of the pie.

 

[Mike man]

When the contract expires, it's expired baby

What did Congress say was the primary purpose of the RLA?
Railroad management wanted to keep the trains moving by putting an end to “wildcat” strikes. Railroad workers wanted to make sure they had an opportunity to organize, be recognized as the exclusive bargaining agent in dealing with a company, negotiate new agreements and enforce existing ones. Both sides “won” with the passage of the RLA. Workers won the right to form unions, negotiate with the railroads and to have a grievance system imposed on the companies. The railroads won the right to keep commerce from being disrupted without going through a lengthy and complicated process.


We can't have that, we have to keep the trains moving, what would all of our train passengers do if we had a wildcat strike?


There would be no trains to get them from San Juan to NYC...clearly a law passed in 1926 (amended in 1936 to include airlines) is relevant to the working conditions of a nearly railroadless country, 90+ years since it was passed.


Wasn't there a mass transit strike during the world series in PHL? It seem to me like the trains would be considered, well, a train...why do they get to go on strike?

 

[waveflyer]

Our ability to strike is both highly political and public.

Two areas we could do better- vote for union friendly representatives and build better PR.

Right now- what does Obama owe airline pilots? It would be a stretch to think that 40% voted for him--- probably closer to 25%. so why would he expend political capital in our direction when a majority of us wouldn't give him the time?

It starts with our vote- either convince republicans of the wisdom of supporting our unions - or start voting dem-

And get our unions to begin PR for pilots- the public is grossly misinformed about what we do.

SFR- you're a flaming idiot.

 

[samballs]

Yeah, they really showed us Americans! All they showed was that their union is to stupid to run a strike vote properly. I would like to think ALPA could do this better, but with the fat boy running the show, I think as a group went on strike he would find a way to screw it up, so another group could prosper.

 

[PCL_128]

One thing the RLA does is give time to the unions to get all the pilots on board for a strike. That can be useful, since pilots are loathe to risk their jobs (and no one wants to see their company go out of business), and it takes a while to get everyone on board in this country, unlike the EU where strikes and labor unions are just the same way they've done business for centuries. Their employees are much more used to that type of process.

Another thing the RLA does is prevent management from unilaterally imposing new work rules / pay rates on the very day that the contract is amendable, and forces them to go through the bargaining process or the court system in bankruptcy to obtain concessions.

Using AirTran as an example, back when the contract became amendable and we had a weak union on property (about 5 years ago), if there were no RLA on the day the contract became amendable, management could have walked in and said, "We're going to unilaterally cut wages by 20%, cut your B fund by 50%, and get rid of the Twomey/Casher award". The pilots would be up in arms, but afraid to walk off the line that very day. Then the company comes in at the last second and says "Unless you sign this new contract that freezes all wages for another 10 years, we're going to follow through with our cuts". It's possible it would have passed. Today is another story.

Now that we've had time to get our ducks in order, stronger union, more organized, and ready to fight that battle, management is in a much worse position to do any such thing once we're released into self-help.

So it's a two-way street. Yes, we'd get the ability to wildcat strike, sympathy strike, and not wait half a decade or longer for the process to work, but management at airlines that weren't prepared could seriously mess with the pilot group. It would require an entirely new method of preparation and operation by unions in this country.

Excellent post! Few pilots understand the Act this well, unfortunately. The RLA certainly needs some tweaking, but throwing it out and starting from scratch would make things far worse for us. With a pro-labor NMB in place, we actually have far more benefits under the Act than does management.

Don't you think we could get it amended drastically in our favor with a democratic pres, a majority in the house and a filabuster proof majority in the Senate? Seems like it to me. Maybe not everything, but a lot more than now.

While the dems won't likely support us, I can't imagine they will WORK AGAINST US and therefore anger labor at large (outside of aviation) in time for the 2010 elections.

Thoughts?

The problem is that we don't have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. There are too many moderate Dems that won't take the necessary steps. We need a few more liberal Dems before we can get any considerable reforms in the RLA, most likely.

I don't think alpa representation is interested in amending the RLA. It is a great guarantee of employment for them....endless negotiations.

ALPA has a team working on it right now, actually. But, as I said, it's doubtful that we have the support we need in the Senate. Vote appropriately in November.

 

[propdog]

You have to have PERMANENT EU right of abode in order to work for any of the EU companies.

Have you ever tried to get that as a U.S. citizen? It's difficult in the extreme, and that's an understatement. I looked into it last year when I spent a month flying in Italy. It's not even the JAA licensing that's the hard part (although that's time consuming), it's getting an EU passport and/or EU right of abode on a permanent basis that's the hard part.

But thanks for being so polite about it...

Same thing here. You have to have a US permanent resident card before you can apply or a job in a US airline. And getting a US permanent resident card is a long process in the US as well....lots of paperwork, years of waiting time.

 

[pilotyip]

fortunately

ALPA has a team working on it right now, actually. But, as I said, it's doubtful that we have the support we need in the Senate. Vote appropriately in November.

Fortunately it is such a small voting block that it should make little difference in the election, not to mention the income redistribution plan that comes from those same pro-Labour pols. Most senior guys will protect their income before voting pro-Labour. I could be wrong.

 

[PCL_128]

Most senior guys will protect their income before voting pro-Labour.
[/SIZE]

Amazingly, you don't see the contradiction in your own moronic drivel.

 

[pilotyip]

same guys

Amazingly, you don't see the contradiction in your own moronic drivel.

these are the same guys who gave you "B" scale, scope, and a host of other thing to protect thier position. In your world it may be short signed, but it fits good ole Adam Smith from 1790. Everyone looks out for their won self interest in every transaction.

 

[crj567]

Here in the land of the free, you go to jail if you strike without permission.

You actually just get fired. There really is no "strike jail" in the U.S.

-Althought I agree, in principle. The Railway Labor Act is the worst thing to ever happen to this industry (next to deregulation.)

 

[Lear70]

You actually just get fired. There really is no "strike jail" in the U.S.

-Althought I agree, in principle. The Railway Labor Act is the worst thing to ever happen to this industry (next to deregulation.)

I think he/she was referring to a few times that labor leaders in the U.S. have been thrown in jail, albeit temporarily, for pushing an illegal work action past the point of contempt of court.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Using AirTran as an example, back when the contract became amendable and we had a weak union on property (about 5 years ago), if there were no RLA on the day the contract became amendable, management could have walked in and said, "We're going to unilaterally cut wages by 20%, cut your B fund by 50%, and get rid of the Twomey/Casher award". The pilots would be up in arms, but afraid to walk off the line that very day. Then the company comes in at the last second and says "Unless you sign this new contract that freezes all wages for another 10 years, we're going to follow through with our cuts". It's possible it would have passed. Today is another story.

One of the reasons pilots are ready to make the same mistakes is they don't know their history.

This scenario happen during the infancy of the Airline pilot career. Pilots were met by an armed guard when they showed up to work... escorted to a company official, they were given thier termination notice and an application for employment at a lower wage. It happened, its real.

If pilots really want to be bad ass muther****ers, then give your termination notice to your union rep and tell him to get better wages for you. This also happend and was real. The pilots union leader had a stack of resignation letters when he sat down with management.