The Brits show Americans the way. STRIKE!

[waveflyer]

Our ability to strike is both highly political and public.

Two areas we could do better- vote for union friendly representatives and build better PR.

Right now- what does Obama owe airline pilots? It would be a stretch to think that 40% voted for him--- probably closer to 25%. so why would he expend political capital in our direction when a majority of us wouldn't give him the time?

It starts with our vote- either convince republicans of the wisdom of supporting our unions - or start voting dem-

And get our unions to begin PR for pilots- the public is grossly misinformed about what we do.

SFR- you're a flaming idiot.

 

[samballs]

Yeah, they really showed us Americans! All they showed was that their union is to stupid to run a strike vote properly. I would like to think ALPA could do this better, but with the fat boy running the show, I think as a group went on strike he would find a way to screw it up, so another group could prosper.

 

[PCL_128]

One thing the RLA does is give time to the unions to get all the pilots on board for a strike. That can be useful, since pilots are loathe to risk their jobs (and no one wants to see their company go out of business), and it takes a while to get everyone on board in this country, unlike the EU where strikes and labor unions are just the same way they've done business for centuries. Their employees are much more used to that type of process.

Another thing the RLA does is prevent management from unilaterally imposing new work rules / pay rates on the very day that the contract is amendable, and forces them to go through the bargaining process or the court system in bankruptcy to obtain concessions.

Using AirTran as an example, back when the contract became amendable and we had a weak union on property (about 5 years ago), if there were no RLA on the day the contract became amendable, management could have walked in and said, "We're going to unilaterally cut wages by 20%, cut your B fund by 50%, and get rid of the Twomey/Casher award". The pilots would be up in arms, but afraid to walk off the line that very day. Then the company comes in at the last second and says "Unless you sign this new contract that freezes all wages for another 10 years, we're going to follow through with our cuts". It's possible it would have passed. Today is another story.

Now that we've had time to get our ducks in order, stronger union, more organized, and ready to fight that battle, management is in a much worse position to do any such thing once we're released into self-help.

So it's a two-way street. Yes, we'd get the ability to wildcat strike, sympathy strike, and not wait half a decade or longer for the process to work, but management at airlines that weren't prepared could seriously mess with the pilot group. It would require an entirely new method of preparation and operation by unions in this country.

Excellent post! Few pilots understand the Act this well, unfortunately. The RLA certainly needs some tweaking, but throwing it out and starting from scratch would make things far worse for us. With a pro-labor NMB in place, we actually have far more benefits under the Act than does management.

Don't you think we could get it amended drastically in our favor with a democratic pres, a majority in the house and a filabuster proof majority in the Senate? Seems like it to me. Maybe not everything, but a lot more than now.

While the dems won't likely support us, I can't imagine they will WORK AGAINST US and therefore anger labor at large (outside of aviation) in time for the 2010 elections.

Thoughts?

The problem is that we don't have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. There are too many moderate Dems that won't take the necessary steps. We need a few more liberal Dems before we can get any considerable reforms in the RLA, most likely.

I don't think alpa representation is interested in amending the RLA. It is a great guarantee of employment for them....endless negotiations.

ALPA has a team working on it right now, actually. But, as I said, it's doubtful that we have the support we need in the Senate. Vote appropriately in November.

 

[propdog]

You have to have PERMANENT EU right of abode in order to work for any of the EU companies.

Have you ever tried to get that as a U.S. citizen? It's difficult in the extreme, and that's an understatement. I looked into it last year when I spent a month flying in Italy. It's not even the JAA licensing that's the hard part (although that's time consuming), it's getting an EU passport and/or EU right of abode on a permanent basis that's the hard part.

But thanks for being so polite about it...

Same thing here. You have to have a US permanent resident card before you can apply or a job in a US airline. And getting a US permanent resident card is a long process in the US as well....lots of paperwork, years of waiting time.

 

[pilotyip]

fortunately

ALPA has a team working on it right now, actually. But, as I said, it's doubtful that we have the support we need in the Senate. Vote appropriately in November.

Fortunately it is such a small voting block that it should make little difference in the election, not to mention the income redistribution plan that comes from those same pro-Labour pols. Most senior guys will protect their income before voting pro-Labour. I could be wrong.

 

[PCL_128]

Most senior guys will protect their income before voting pro-Labour.
[/SIZE]

Amazingly, you don't see the contradiction in your own moronic drivel.

 

[pilotyip]

same guys

Amazingly, you don't see the contradiction in your own moronic drivel.

these are the same guys who gave you "B" scale, scope, and a host of other thing to protect thier position. In your world it may be short signed, but it fits good ole Adam Smith from 1790. Everyone looks out for their won self interest in every transaction.

 

[crj567]

Here in the land of the free, you go to jail if you strike without permission.

You actually just get fired. There really is no "strike jail" in the U.S.

-Althought I agree, in principle. The Railway Labor Act is the worst thing to ever happen to this industry (next to deregulation.)

 

[Lear70]

You actually just get fired. There really is no "strike jail" in the U.S.

-Althought I agree, in principle. The Railway Labor Act is the worst thing to ever happen to this industry (next to deregulation.)

I think he/she was referring to a few times that labor leaders in the U.S. have been thrown in jail, albeit temporarily, for pushing an illegal work action past the point of contempt of court.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Using AirTran as an example, back when the contract became amendable and we had a weak union on property (about 5 years ago), if there were no RLA on the day the contract became amendable, management could have walked in and said, "We're going to unilaterally cut wages by 20%, cut your B fund by 50%, and get rid of the Twomey/Casher award". The pilots would be up in arms, but afraid to walk off the line that very day. Then the company comes in at the last second and says "Unless you sign this new contract that freezes all wages for another 10 years, we're going to follow through with our cuts". It's possible it would have passed. Today is another story.

One of the reasons pilots are ready to make the same mistakes is they don't know their history.

This scenario happen during the infancy of the Airline pilot career. Pilots were met by an armed guard when they showed up to work... escorted to a company official, they were given thier termination notice and an application for employment at a lower wage. It happened, its real.

If pilots really want to be bad ass muther****ers, then give your termination notice to your union rep and tell him to get better wages for you. This also happend and was real. The pilots union leader had a stack of resignation letters when he sat down with management.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My post was not intended that the rla needs to be thrown out, but amended. There has to be some process to allow self help at some point. This in itself is weighted against labor with the endless time frame the nmb is allowed to park negotiations.

Welcome to the United States. Now that you've put your eggs into Labors baskets, it sucks to realize that those who control power and wealth don't give a damm about you and I. Kinda like a 7 year old kid realizing she is black in 1930s Alabama. In one epiphany, innocence is lost.

I do not believe ALPA has any desire to change the status quo either. ALPA is in my opinion a failed organization when it comes to representation.

ALPA is the best shot we got. You think ALPA sucks. But your reasoning is because you do not understand CapHill and you cannot manage your expectations. You'd better learn to like ALPA because nothing else is going to get a career for you.

If you look at the history of the profession there is nothing better. ALPA is like govt/democracy... it sucks, but it is better than the alternative.

The reason why the RLA sucks in part is because pilots won't follow the leadership out of the foxhole. One pilot charging management like a maniac doesn't cut it. 70+% pilots charging management gets the job done and the RLA moving. You chiding ALPA helps or hinders?

The two things and the ONLY two things that motivates management to give us the CBA we deserve is govt pressure and grassroots movements from its employees (pilots). ALPA is simply the deal broker once management cries uncle.

 

[Beaver79]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8411214.stm

British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike

British Airways cabin crew have voted overwhelmingly in favour of strike action in a dispute over job cuts and changes to staff contracts.
The strikes are set to begin on 22 December and run until 2 January.
Cabin crew voted by nine to one in favour of the strike action, with an 80% turnout.
BA's chief executive Willie Walsh said the decision was "cynical" and betrayed "a lack of concern for our customers, our business and other employees".
Len McCluskey, assistant general secretary of the Unite union, said: "It goes without saying that we have taken this decision to disrupt passengers and customers over the Christmas period with a heavy heart."
He stressed that the union was keen to continue negotiations.
"We will wait, ready to meet, anytime, anywhere, 24 hours a day, to try to see if we can resolve the dispute."
Contacting passengers

BA's chief executive Willie Walsh said the company would be doing everything it could to limit the effect of the strike action.
"We are going to look at all our options [to minimise disruption]; operational, legal and industrial relations options," he told BBC News.
BA offered passengers who are booked to travel during the strike period - or 48 hours either side of it - the chance to rebook their flights at no extra cost.
Otherwise it said it would inform customers of changes to its schedules by email or SMS text.
"We will use the contact details supplied at the time of booking, so we ask customers to please ensure these are correct and up-to-date," BA said in a statement.
Mr Walsh said he had told the Unite union he was available for talks, but was uncompromising on the central issue of the dispute.
"The changes that we introduced in the middle of November will not be reversed. Those changes enabled us to offer voluntary redundancy to 1,000 cabin crew and those people have left the business."

Cuts concerns

Unions are unhappy about job cuts and changes to staff contracts, which they say they have not been consulted on.
BA has reduced the number of cabin crew from 15 to 14 on all long-haul flights, and has frozen pay for two years.
Unite said that the cuts involved imposing "significant contractual changes" on cabin crew employees, resulting in extended working hours, and reduced wages for new starters.
BA says it urgently needs to cut costs to ride out its dire financial situation. Last month it revealed it had lost £292m in the first half of the year - the worst period in its history - and said it would have to cut a further 1,200 staff.

Go ahead and strike. Let me know how that works for you. Chances are with todays economy and political (read as gov't interventionist attitude), a labor action would lead to: A) dissolving the airline due to overwhelming costs vs revenues or B) the president stepping in to say the action is "illegal" (in his view since the gov't believes it knows best). Either way, it will probably not end well. But hey, go for it and "prove" your point - and if you are hungry at the end of it, don't whine.

 

[Lear70]

Go ahead and strike. Let me know how that works for you. Chances are with todays economy and political (read as gov't interventionist attitude), a labor action would lead to: A) dissolving the airline due to overwhelming costs vs revenues or B) the president stepping in to say the action is "illegal" (in his view since the gov't believes it knows best). Either way, it will probably not end well. But hey, go for it and "prove" your point - and if you are hungry at the end of it, don't whine.

Suuuurrrre, skippy.

The shareholders of Airtran (just as an example) would likely not take kindly to dissolving a $700 Million company that has, historically, generated over $100 Million a year in profits for nearly the last decade (and is projected to continue doing so) for pilot raises that would still leave the company profitable.

The same goes for many regionals. There's simply no way a CEO would allow the company to go out of business over reasonable employee raises. It's called "Fiscal Responsibility to the Shareholders". A CEO who violated that would find him/herself not only out of a career (no one would ever put that person at the helm of a major airline again) but quite likely on the end of a personal lawsuit from the shareholders.

Running a bankrupt company into the ground over a strike is one thing. Running a perfectly profitable company into the ground over it is something else entirely. Something that a couple decades or so in the 121 world tends to each one, as does the study of the airline industry history.

Lastly, Obama isn't going to intervene in any carrier's work stoppage except for one of the legacies and even then he can't label it "illegal". It's called "The Railway Labor Act". When released into self-help, it's as legal as it gets.

Now if you want to talk about Obama intervening and ordering flight crews back to work, under "hardship of the traveling public" or something similar, that's another story entirely. However, that doesn't last forever, either. Unless he wants to attempt to amend the RLA, he'll eventually have to allow the strike if the parties can't come to an arrangement.

This is the system under which we live. I suggest you study it better if you want to be a part of it. A defeatist attitude such as yours which leaves no room for the improvement of our industry isn't really welcome. Seriously.

 

[waveflyer]

Well said Lear(!)
there is no time for that attitude.

 

[bubbers44]

Clinton stopped the last AA pilots strike 20 minutes after it started. I was on the picket line. It wasn't a forever stop but it made a statement that we had to resolve the situation. It was resolved and we ended up resolving the situation. Looks like we have done a full circle and will have to do it again.