The Best Plane for 10M.

[mzaharis]

There's a couple of Stage III kits available for the G1159. Here's one.


http://www.stageiii.com/



GV

Here's the other . . .

http://www.qtaerospace.com/

 

[ultrarunner]

I think Stageiii is still a pipe dream, as it's gone through a re-design, and if I recall, the only one flying is the mule. It might be an option, but not for a while.

On the other hand, QTA I think has modified 50 airplanes or so. This would seem your only option right now if you need to hush a G.

As far as EU, I haven't seen anything specifically baring aircraft hushed to meet the requirment, but you never know....a quick call to NBAA will answwer that.

 

[wildbill]

It is my understanding that the Europeans consider an aircraft according to how it came from the factory. The hush kits may not be acceptable. The one thing you have to watch for is the 25 year old aircraft rule. I'm not sure how many European countries are enforcing that yet.

 

[con-pilot]

The one thing you have to watch for is the 25 year old aircraft rule. I'm not sure how many European countries are enforcing that yet.

Yeah, that could be a real ouch, as in 'got ya'!

Of course some people believe that the reason that rule in in force is pure protectionism to force old Boeings out the sky for new Airbuses.

Some people that is, not me.


(In a pigs eye I don't. )

 

[lazyace75]

I flew the 65 at one time and no way would I attempt it, but it was a great airplane.

OUr 65 model did Hawaii on a routine basis with the previous owner....however that's something I don't know if I'd try.

Not to hijack the thread but the 65 is GREAT airplane. We've updated all avionics and it's really hard to beat. Don't get me wrong, I'm not wanting to fly them forever but it's a great pilot's airplane.

 

[SabreFlyR]

OUr 65 model did Hawaii on a routine basis with the previous owner....however that's something I don't know if I'd try.

Not to hijack the thread but the 65 is GREAT airplane. We've updated all avionics and it's really hard to beat. Don't get me wrong, I'm not wanting to fly them forever but it's a great pilot's airplane.

I put a bunch of time in the 65 and ours had updated avionics etc also. With the exception of the 40 that I also flew it was a great fun plane to fly.

The guy I flew for at the time wanted to do Hawaii and we ran the numbers and reran the numbers. That was 2 years ago so my specifics may be off but I think the max headwind component you could do it with was 50 kts and arrive with about 1200 lbs fo fuel, way to close for me. Now I did plenty of 2000nm legs but with ground under us not all water.

 

[NW Flyer]

So, the new Hawker 900XP is supposed to have 2950NM. A new one could likely be had in the 15M ballpark. Anyone think that would make a decent Hawaii airplane?

 

[mzaharis]

On the other hand, QTA I think has modified 50 airplanes or so.

A couple of which are already on the market, if you don't want to buy then convert.

http://www.controller.com/listings/...1102858&guid=7AE53A694CA2455095EFCB6D15AF6F2D
http://www.controller.com/listings/...1114033&guid=7AE53A694CA2455095EFCB6D15AF6F2D

 

[wildbill]

That SN# 431 was a good airplane. It is an AC aircraft thus desirable. The hush kits were put on to due Naples,Fl.

 

[SansPlane]

[FONT=&quot]Sort of on topic - We were leaving KMRY on Wed. and the pilots pointed out a Lear 36 that was on its way to Hawaii. Is the 36 a good Hawaii plane for 4 persons & 2 pilots? http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N361PJ[/FONT]

 

[G100driver]

[FONT=&quot]Sort of on topic - We were leaving KMRY on Wed. and the pilots pointed out a Lear 36 that was on its way to Hawaii. Is the 36 a good Hawaii plane for 4 persons & 2 pilots? http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N361PJ[/FONT]

This Premier Jets and they regularly operate over there for air ambulance for the native Hawaiians. The owner of this airplane gives scumbags a bad name.

 

[~~~^~~~]

There are plenty of parts, just owned by 2 companies in St louis and they keep the prices fairly high.

I'll bet you $100 our 28 year old Sabre-65 will still be flying long after most of those new CJ's and lear 40 models are scrap metal.

I would bet you it's the best plane and the MOST plane for the buck.

He's right. Surprisingly good airplane with the "new" wing and 731's.

 

[some_dude]

Also, Premier Jets has extended tip tanks on at least one (maybe both?) of their 36s, giving them plenty of range for Hawaii.

The stock 36 can do it, but it's tight (not too different from the Sabre numbers mentioned above). As for whether it's a good airplane for that role, well... would you want to sit in that cabin for 6 hours?

I can tell you from experience that sitting in that cockpit for 6+ hours isn't fun!

And the 36 basically has NO baggage space. So make up your own mind.

This Premier Jets and they regularly operate over there for air ambulance for the native Hawaiians. The owner of this airplane gives scumbags a bad name.

 

[hawkerjet]

Does anyone have the Universal avionics upgrade in their 601? I just looked at their web site and it looks great. This might be the niche plane for international ops at 10 mil. Under 25 years old, quiet engines, and 3900nm range in the 3A-ER. Am I missing something?
(Not the Gulfstream vs Challenger debate please, I already know the G IV is the best airplane for this but it comes in at 15-18 mil.)
Also, not being familiar with the challenger airframe, what's wrong with taking that plane to Hawaii? Are we talking about winter headwinds, I am curious as to why someone wouldn't want to take it to Hawaii.

 

[GVFlyer]

I should know this, but, can one operate a hushed kitted G-III in Europe? I have not seen any over there, however, I do realize that the hushed G-II/III is not that common as yet, so that could be the reason.

As this has been a question whose answer has changed several times due to US political pressure on the EU, I sent your question to the VP sales for Stage III Technologies. This is his answer.

...[FONT=&quot]When the Stage III hushkit is installed, the aircraft is reclassified as a stage 3/chapter 3 aircraft. Therefore, you may fly anywhere that a stage 3/chapter 3 aircraft is welcome. To my knowledge, there is no country to which you can not fly with our hushkit. You might be remembering an old dispute between the US and the EU regarding hushkitted aircraft. This was resolved in favor of the hushkitted aircraft in 2000 (thanks largely to the efforts of FedEx who had a lot at stake at that time with their hushkitted 727’s as I understand)...


GV
[/FONT]

 

[G100driver]

Also, not being familiar with the challenger airframe, what's wrong with taking that plane to Hawaii? Are we talking about winter headwinds, I am curious as to why someone wouldn't want to take it to Hawaii.

I think that people were off their own little tangets refering to Hawkers, Sabre's. Lears over to HI. We can debate the foolishness of such venture's and the fools who operate these airplanes, but in keeping the original question in mind .. there is no problem that I can see flying a 601-A - 601-R to HI. I think that most here would agree, unless I am missing something about the Challenger aircraft. (RAT dropping down excluded)

I think that most here were also refering to the G-III for under $10 million, not the G-IV. You can still get a G-III that is under 25 years old and in excellent condition.

Good luck in your aircraft search.

 

[GVFlyer]

G-IIIs, which have a 3,594 nm range, can be had for $5.2 - $7.5 million. The 3,012 nm CL601-3A is going for $10.3 - 11.90 million. The 3,030 nm CL601-1A is selling for $8.10 - $8.30 million.

All three have the redundancy necessary for the West coast to Hawaii flight.


For reference, straight G-IVs are on the market for $14.50 - $17.70 million. A G-IVSP will run you $21.50 - $27.50 million. G400s are at $29.50 - $31.50 million, as little as $2.67 million less than a new G450.

GV

 

[StageIII]

Stage III Technololgies

I think Stageiii is still a pipe dream, as it's gone through a re-design, and if I recall, the only one flying is the mule. It might be an option, but not for a while.

Hello all,

We prefer to call it a test aircraft, but, since it was G-II SN 003, mule is not too far off.

Anyway, the hushkit is fully certified, including our new thrust reverser, and our first installation is scheduled for July. We have one slot left for July and are expecting to make 2 available per month beginning in August.

I noticed someone already linked to our main page (thanks!), but I thought it might be helpful to include a direct link to our cost comparison page ( http://www.stageiii.com/comparison.asp ). You may compare the G1159 family of aircraft against comparable aircraft. I think you might be surprised as to how reasonable it is to operate these aircraft - especially considering the relatively low capital investment required.

If I can be of any help to anyone, please contact me anytime.

Cheers,

Chris Hicks
[email protected]
858.964.5816

 

[IronManNDFW]

I think you might consider another airframe.

Look into an Exec B-727-100. You can usually get one with Glass & hush kitted, wingletts,a nd new paint & interior for WAY below $10 mil., and just think of all the money you save from buying another airframe, that will pay for all the gas you will burn.

12-120 PAX no problem, Stand up cabin - no problem, Real Galley,- no propblem, Hawaii - no Problem, MX no problem (carry a mechanic), Europe, no problem, 3 engines - no problem. Old Airframe - kind of a problem.

Depends on what you want.

 

[Lead Sled]

Also, Premier Jets has extended tip tanks on at least one (maybe both?) of their 36s, giving them plenty of range for Hawaii.

The stock 36 can do it, but it's tight (not too different from the Sabre numbers mentioned above). As for whether it's a good airplane for that role, well... would you want to sit in that cabin for 6 hours?

I can tell you from experience that sitting in that cockpit for 6+ hours isn't fun!

And the 36 basically has NO baggage space. So make up your own mind.

About 15 years ago I was in Tucson for Lear 35 recurrent. We had a couple of guys from Hawaii who operated a 55 and a 35 for some bank over there. They flew the airplanes to the mainland once a year for maintenance and recurrent. It was amazing listening to those "professionals" in ground school... One guy said that the only thing he didn't like about it was on the return trip they'd sometime get the low fuel light just prior to descent. It was amazing how several in the class thought that these guys were Lear Gods.

LS