Talking with the PAX at a Frac.

[netjetwife]

And your point is?

I don't know where that trashy remark came from, but it had nothing to do with the subject. I was merely trying to pass on information. The FOs at NJA that serve on planes without FAs are sometimes tipped. It is reasonable to think that it has something to do with how well the needs of the pax are met. Many people appreciate a strong work ethic and individual attention. As my husband would be the first to say, it's not just the money, it's also the show of appreciation and respect that adds to the satisfaction of knowing you've done a good job. I don't think the FOs are paid what they deserve. Any tips that come their way have been earned and no one should feel bad about accepting them. Obviously, Dork, my posts are on a higher level than you are interested in. I suggest that you put your internet time to better use by visiting a website more in line with your train of thought.

 

[SAEflyer]

No this isn't an interview, it is an interview BOARD. I thought I would throw out some helpful interview tips since this thread jarred my memory that this has been used before. Not trying to be the reg police or anything, relax.

*deep breaths, deeeep breaths* Ok i'm relaxed. Just another episode...

 

[Fernando]

good answer Netwife! And im in favor of tips, specially like you said, if ypu do some stuff besides the pilot stuff, and youre offered a tip, of course ill take it!

its very interesting to see the wife of a pilot so interested in his job that you look for forums like this and become a member, thats really neat

 

[horizoncaptain]

Just had an owner last week at flops ask me how things were going. After some chit chat he commented, "you guys really need a union here." He's the one who brought it up. I couldn't agree with him more.

 

[xcrew]

netwife,

Have you considered investing in a soapbox and buying some time on TV on Sunday mornings?

 

[netjetwife]

That's a new one!

XCrew, my critics usually try to shame me off the board by suggesting that I'm neglecting my children and/or housework. Others hope to embarrass me into leaving. None have been successful. Thanks anyway, but I'm happy in this forum. What credibility I have here was gained through perseverance and articulation. It also helps to have an excellent source..

Fernando, our background in the AF must help explain my interest in my husband's career. The AF had a "two for one" attitude towards officers wives. Fighter squadrons are a tight knit community and families are an important part of the mission readiness. I'm not saying other aviation communities aren't much the same; I'm just sharing my experience and the reason that I'm comfortable talking to pilots. Add to that my strong convictions that the pilots must stand up for themselves and their families and you get an opinionated wife who's not afraid to stand on a "soap box" and cry foul when she sees something wrong.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

THE LIFESTYLE IS HARD ON FAMILIES SO IT MUST BE JUSTIFIED BY THE PAY

 

[SAEflyer]

Just once i'd love to see a thread stay on topic...once....haha who am i kidding

 

[GVFlyer]

Should you be thanked with a monetary gesture of appreciation, realize that it is for services above and beyond your duties as a pilot, and pocket it with a smile.

It is inappropriate and unprofessional to accept a tip when flying in the Western World. If you are flying someone from a society where it is a cultural imperative to grant gratuities such as the Saudis or the Sultan of Brunei, then it would show a lack of senstivity for the principals culture to refuse a gratuity.

GV

 

[netjetwife]

GVFlyer,what is your source for the opinion you are stating as a fact? I can tell you that I spent several hours doing an internet search on etiquette rules that govern tipping here in the U.S. and elsewhere in the Western World. Here is what I learned--one does not tip a pilot unless he/she has performed duties above and beyond flying the airplane. If a pax receives special attention from the flight crew such as help with the luggage, serving drinks, food, etc, and arranging ground transportation prior to arrival, then they have earned, and definitely do deserve, a tip, according to the authorities on the subject. As many frac pilots perform those, and similar services, for their pax, they would be exhibiting bad manners--acting unprofessionally, if you will---were they to shun a tip which had been offered as a token of appreciation.

I make it a personal rule not to post information, as being factual, that I'm unsure of. Hence, I'm standing by my post. Remember, it's the personal attention the pilots are tipped for--not flying the plane.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Back on topic for a second. At my last job (not fractional, but charter isn't all that different) we visited with the passengers when we could. As for getting them drinks, I always placed a cold bottle of water, a cup of ice and a napkin at each seat to be occupied prior to the pax arriving. I then offered them other drinks during my safety briefing. Once at cruise and assuming we had enough time, the captain or I would check on the passengers. Sometimes this just envolved turning around and asking them how the temperature was, but a lot of the time it envolved getting up, moving back and taking 5 minutes to talk with the passengers. One way or another we would communicate with the passengers during the flight.

 

[VVJM265]

Side Bar

Fernando, our background in the AF must help explain my interest in my husband's career. The AF had a "two for one" attitude towards officers wives. Fighter squadrons are a tight knit community and families are an important part of the mission readiness.

If that is so, then it's a far, far different situation than what we've seen in the Navy....

 

[Freight Dog]

I think it's more inappropriate that pilots are paid as little as they are in the Western World. I guess that's another debate altogether...

It is inappropriate and unprofessional to accept a tip when flying in the Western World. If you are flying someone from a society where it is a cultural imperative to grant gratuities such as the Saudis or the Sultan of Brunei, then it would show a lack of senstivity for the principals culture to refuse a gratuity.

GV

 

[LXJ31]

I'll buy GV's logic if he explains the difference between my boss dropping a $100 on me, saying "Go have a nice steak tonight" and at year's end when he drops a Christmas card in my in-box with a bonus?

For those in the service industry (waiters etc.) the prospect of a healthy tip is the incentive to perform their duty well. For a flight crew, the prospect of a tip carries no incentive; there is nothing I could or would do differently on a given trip regardless of who is on-board.

GV's qualifications indicate that he probably is compensated quite well for his work. But for some young FO in a Beechjet pulling in $25k a year...

 

[netjetwife]

If that is so, then it's a far, far different situation than what we've seen in the Navy....

Perhaps you're taking my post too literally. I was referring more to the social side of things and to the way the military squadrons take care of their own. Families are briefed during times of deployment and it is recognized throughout the military that the troops perform better when they know the families left behind are taken care of. Commanders wives are expected to be there for the wives junior to them. When it's an officer's turn to host a function, it's expected that his wife will assist him in making the arrangements. No one in the squadron questioned me when I booked a restaurant and chose a menu, so it seemed perfectly normal to me to call the NJ pilots' families in our area and suggest we all meet at a certain location on a date I chose. The former navy pilot in the group was not surprised to learn my husband was a retired AF officer. To him it explained my desire to meet the NJ families in our area. My own personal sense of outrage at the plight of frac families, explains the rest.

 

[GVFlyer]

To Insure Prompt Service (TIPS)

GVFlyer,what is your source for the opinion you are stating as a fact? I can tell you that I spent several hours doing an internet search on etiquette rules that govern tipping here in the U.S. and elsewhere in the Western World. Here is what I learned--one does not tip a pilot unless he/she has performed duties above and beyond flying the airplane. If a pax receives special attention from the flight crew such as help with the luggage, serving drinks, food, etc, and arranging ground transportation prior to arrival, then they have earned, and definitely do deserve, a tip, according to the authorities on the subject. As many frac pilots perform those, and similar services, for their pax, they would be exhibiting bad manners--acting unprofessionally, if you will---were they to shun a tip which had been offered as a token of appreciation.

I make it a personal rule not to post information, as being factual, that I'm unsure of. Hence, I'm standing by my post. Remember, it's the personal attention the pilots are tipped for--not flying the plane.

There are several levels at which to respond to your question. On one level I could facetiously say that the only difference between me and your husband is that I'm still doing what the military trained me to do. I was in the military VIP community for many years with domestic and overseas postings. I served my final six years at Andrews AFB. When I was in a military uniform no senior officer, politician, or foreign dignitary would have dreamed of offering me a gratuity. They respected me as the professional pilot and military officer that I was. I have never expected that to be any different in my civilian uniform.

On another level, at two of my subsequent positions the company Ops Manuals have specifically prohibited the acceptance of gratuities.

On a personal level, I consider myself to be a professional just as an airline captain is or as is a doctor or a lawyer. I would never consider trying to push an envelope with a tip enclosed under the reinforced cockpit door for the 777 captain who had just given me a smooth flight to Paris. Nor would I attempt to slip a Benjamin into the hand of a cruise ship captain at the completion of a particularly nice Caribbean cruise. I have also never considered tipping my doctor for a good surgical procedure or my dentist for a nice cap or my lawyer for executing a legal document professionally. I think they would be insulted.

Does NJA's Ops Manual address the subject of gratuities?

GV









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