Talking with the PAX at a Frac.

[Grizz]

Here is a guy that's a career VIP pilot who finished his military service with six years at the most prestigious executive aviation organization on the planet

Trust me - they ain't that special. Being a poster boy for the AF OAS doesn't make you a great pilot. Mostly it just means you know how to kneel and smooch.

 

[SkyGirl]

Sour Grapes?

Trust me - they ain't that special. Being a poster boy for the AF OAS doesn't make you a great pilot. Mostly it just means you know how to kneel and smooch.

So, flying the President and the Nation's senior military and political leaders internationally and into and out of hostile fire zones is no big deal and no special trust and confidence is placed in the pilots who do so?

It sounds like you applied to the Wing and couldn't make the cut, Grizz.

I've had the good fortune to ride on an 89th Airlift Wing airplane from Andrews as a part of my job. They are a very impressive organization. But then again, so are all the VIP units at Andrews AFB - Army, Navy, Marine Corps and National Guard.


_SkyGirl_

 

[Semore Butts]

Hostile fire zones?

What are you talking about?

You aren't talking about Gulfstreams are you?

 

[Going2Baja]

Come on Semore - they can do it all right???? I heard they drop bombs with their hands!

Baja.

 

[Diesel]

wasn't that a VIP unit that plowed with ron brown into the side of the mountain?

In the end the report found the crew and the unit comander at fault.

 

[SeaSpray]

Trust me - they ain't that special. Being a poster boy for the AF OAS doesn't make you a great pilot. Mostly it just means you know how to kneel and smooch.

Come on, Grizz. I know better than that, I'm in the military VIP community. It's a tough selection process to get into the 89th at Andrews and at Headquarters, US European Command you had to be second tour OSA and an Academy Grad - if you don't have Jump Wings don't apply.

Hostile fire zones?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What are you talking about?

You aren't talking about Gulfstreams are you?

We do it all the time. You ought to see the shiney new AN/AAQ-24 Nemesis Directional Infared Countermeasures suite we're getting on the Gulfstreams to take the danger out of being close.

You know we all have a weapons system other than the VIP platform right?

SS






`

 

[Semore Butts]

Never saw ya..

I did a year in Iraq flying the ultra, I don't recall seeing any Gulfsteams.

We did haul our Dv's ""down south to catch the Gulfstreams back to the states. Is that what your calling hostile?

My experience is that peope have to do some real soul searching in order to decide if they want to put up with all the BS at the Andrews unit.

I do have friends there that like it however.

How do you all feel about the reserve guys getting hired straight into the Gulfstream in Germany?

 

[Diesel]

Some people have different ideas of what is dangerous.

Some think it's getting shot at.

Some think it's the captain spilling his coffee in the front of a gulfstream.

 

[jaxpilot]

yeah Im a line guy and the tips are pretty nice. The rich guys act like its WORK to drive their Mercedes or BMW to/from the ramp to the parking lot. Gotta love it. But we do try to help out the pilots as much as possible, they usually refuse when we start to grab their bags for them after we've handled the pax bags.

 

[gkrangers]

They refuse because then that means they have to tip you!

yeah Im a line guy and the tips are pretty nice. The rich guys act like its WORK to drive their Mercedes or BMW to/from the ramp to the parking lot. Gotta love it. But we do try to help out the pilots as much as possible, they usually refuse when we start to grab their bags for them after we've handled the pax bags.

 

[pilothouston123]

I like to get out of my seat and talk to the pax a few minutes after cruise. we dont have an intercom, so I like to check if they need anthing and I have them as a capive audience for ground trandportation and return flight info. Its a great time to check out some cleavage.

 

[GVFlyer]

wasn't that a VIP unit that plowed with ron brown into the side of the mountain?

In the end the report found the crew and the unit comander at fault.

That was "Miss Piggy," a CT-43 (B737-200) assigned to the 76th Airlift Squadron at Ramstein Airbase and designated IFOR 21 for the Brown flight to Dubrovnik. There were command issues with the the 86th Wing that the 76th was assigned to. A friend of mine, James A, who is currently a standards guy for TAG, was relieved of command 5 days prior to the April 1996 accident for not scheduling the marginally equipped aircraft into bad weather. The CT-43 had two VORs and a single ADF.

It was after the mishap that Mike Ryan fired the three officers that were above James in the foodchain.

IFOR 21 was flying the the NDB 12 approach into Dubrovnik. The aircraft was running 15 minutes late which is a big deal because we were only allowed planned arrival time plus or minus 3 minutes. Weather was not an issue. It was about 2500 feet overcast with a lower broken deck and 12 knot winds. The crew was late configuring and fast - 180 knots at the final approach fix and the gear was not down.

The NDB 12 Approach is a two NDB approach. One NDB (KLP I believe) is about 12 miles from the field and the other (CV) is about 2 miles from the field. The crew was using a non - DOD approach plate which the command had requested a waiver to use which was denied. It is possible that the crew was unfamiliar with the plate format. In any event they were inside of the first NDB and did not retune their single ADF to the NBD ahead of them. That NDB is abeam St. Johns Mountain which is depicted on the approach chart.

Subsequently, the jet was 9 degrees or about 1.8 nm left of course at the CV NDB which was also the missed approach point. They crashed into St. Johns Mountain well East Northeast of course. Tragic.

Grizz can probably tell you more about the mishap, all T-43 crews were briefed on it.


Semore Butts - I think SeaSpray is assigned to SHAPE.


GV






~

 

[Semore Butts]

Ummm????

Thanks GV, I'm familiar with SHAPE as well.

I arrived in the Bosnian theatre (96-97) just after the crash.

There is alot of "fishy" stuff associated with that crash. This is of course not the place to go into details.

There was a rumor of a possible "Meaconing" event.

Ron Brown wasn't exactly in good favor with the powers to be at that time as I understand.

Last year I flew the VIP to Tuzla to perform the closing ceremony.

Wow, I feel like "Where's Waldo".

I didn't see any "G's" there either.

 

[hydrarkt]

Here is a guy that's a career VIP pilot who finished his military service with six years at the most prestigious executive aviation organization on the planet

SS

YAWWWWN!!!!!

 

[gobucks]

wasn't that a VIP unit that plowed with ron brown into the side of the mountain?

In the end the report found the crew and the unit comander at fault.

I was a brand new 2lt in my first few weeks at Ramstein as a member of the 76 AS when the T-43 crashed. Diesel, I'm a long-time lurker/infrequent poster on these boards, and I agree and support 99% of the stuff you've ever said, especially when it came to the new contract last year, but you shouldn't use a mishap to make a point about any one pilot group not being any better than another. I'll agree that OSA squadrons aren't any better (maybe just a little!) than your average USAF squadron, and certainly aren't any worse. I actually agree with your point about the 86th folks--having started my USAF career as an OSA guy (and loved it), I was never interested in applying with the 89th, just based on what I heard from friends in that wing--politics, personality of the units, etc.. I agree with your point, but crashes are never the best way to make a point. The pilots in that unit were some of the best aviators and professionals I've had that chance to fly with.

 

[Diesel]

We've all lost friends in this job, unfortunatly crashes are the best way to make a point. Thats why those that learn, learn from the mistakes of others.

As they say if you don't study history you'll be doomed to repeat it.

 

[GEXDriver]

Here is a guy that's a career VIP pilot who finished his military service with six years at the most prestigious executive aviation organization on the planet

SS

YAWWWWN!!!!!

The voice of professional envy speaks...







`

 

[NYYfan]

just to get back to the original topic of the thread. Talking to the pax is dependent on them. Obviously all the usual hi how are you is there anything i can get you blah blah. After that if they want to talk im cool with that but i usually try to leave them alone, they re not paying all that money to bs with me.