Tab express

[kilomike]

One very expensive flight school!!

I could not fathom borrowing $80,000 to attend a flight school! That sounds awfully expensive and with the industry being in so much difficulty these days a real gamble. The return on investment particularly if one looks at regional airline salaries for pilots is a very poor ROI. I am an electrical apprentice with the IBEW and I make more than many commuter pilots do (and I think this is shameful!). Those pilots are responsible for people's lives. Yes, I too am responsible--for wiring a place properly so it does not burn down but still!!!

 

[Timebuilder]

Hey, Kilo-

Good to see you still around. I'll bet you can see 1900 boxes and THHN wire in your sleep these days. I remember my time as a "wire nut". How's your conduit bending coming along? I made some pretty weird shapes at first.

 

[C601]

Course Prices

The course itself is only $62,000 but after living costs, food, fees and everything that goes with it, i was told that most students take out the max loan which is $80,000

Again the same was total to me with ATA, students take out the max loan $80,000

It is very expensive, but when you look at the cost only and see FSI is costing $60,000+ just for the cost for there Career Course, overall Tab express it does not look like a bad deal considering your getting time in a kingair.

 

[Timebuilder]

In my opinion, you are better off with all of your instructor tickets from a school that can employ you. Get someone to pay you to fly a King Air, if that's what you want.

 

[C601]

here is somthing to think about

Take out a loan for $80,000.00

I factored in 150months for the term of the loan to repay it back assuming you can get that time

Simple Interest Rate 1% ( yes i know its impossible)

Your Monthly Payment Will Be $666


Your Total Interest Cost Will Be $920006.10

Heres what is surprising even with a 1% interest rate.......

Minimum annual salary
to handle these payments: $1000006.00

makes me pissed when i see GA F/Os making $8/hr how do TAB ATA ever expect you to repay a loan like that back. makes me madd they expect you to take out so much and earn so little ;(

again assuming yr lucky to get a job.

 

[chperplt]

Minimum annual salary to handle these payments: $1000006.00

How did you figure this?


Why did you chose 120 months? The AD says you can pay in over 20 years.. That's 240 months..

 

[sharpeye]

here's something to think about, and this is just something I heard, but from a reliable source, the good old owner of TAB is from Gulfstream Airlines, but was fired from there due to unwise decision making when it came to handling new students money, keeping a little from himself. Just reading this and seeing they are applying for a 135, he could be thinking about trying to duplicate Gulfstreams ways.

 

[publisher]

check your info

Check your information out sharpeye!

 

[sharpeye]

I have looked a little into it actually, thanks for the advice, and here's something else that I know for a fact happens there, the students flying up front with an instructor in the back and all 3 logging the time, tell me, how does one log flight time sitting in the back?? My logbook doesn't have a section for passenger flight time, maybe theirs does.

 

[TriDriver]

sharpeye

Who says I'm logging time when I'm sitting in the back????

I don't need to pad my logbook. I've got an airline job and just about to retire. I get paid by TAB for the block time we fly whether I sit in front or in back.

I do sit up front when we do a one-on-one fam flight. The students get a bunch of simulator time, then they get 11 hours in the actual King Air where it's just one student and me. We do takeoffs/landings, airwork, steep turns, stalls, emergency descents, single engine work (including simulated SE landings) and probably a couple of instrument approaches during that phase. Then they go to the simulator again. When they come back for the x-country flying is when I fly in the back.

I'm up front for the first tenth and last tenth hour of each leg. I sit up front during takeoffs and landings for insurance purposes. Enroute, it's 2 fully qualified multi-engine pilots who have had a King Air checkout flying with each other in an airline type operation. There's just no pax aboard but me and maybe another student doing an observation flight.

Again, I don't need to log time. The program does not even require us airline types who fly the x-country flights to have a CFI.

I do a lot of talking when I'm back there. I'm trying to throw out a lot of info on how things are done in the airlines, and just as much aviation stuff as I can talk about when the students up front aren't too busy with ATC.

Bob the TriDriver

 

[TriDriver]

310

Sorry I haven't been on the forum, but I just got back from a 4-day trip. I'm gonna need to start taking my computer with me again!!

You're fairly high time. If you had a CFI, you could get a job and be up over 1500 or 2000 hours in another year. With your ME time, you'd then be a good prospect for a regional airline job. That might be where you'd spend your career, seeing as you don't have a college degree. Nothing the matter with that!! The regionals fly great equipment, a lot are going to more and more RJ's, the pay is good, and the contracts are getting better year by year. The retirement is generally not as good as the majors, but if you fund your 401k, you'd be in good shape when you retire.

Without the CFI, the TAB Express King Air flying might give you an edge. As I said in an earlier post, they don't have much of a track record yet. As the word gets out and other airlines hear of Colgan's success with the several TAB pilots they've hired, maybe more companies will be looking for TAB trained pilots.

You just have to look at the programs available out there and decide what's right for you.

If you come to TAB, I look forward to flying with ya'!!!

TriDriver Bob

 

[TriDriver]

c601

Yeah, the TAB full program from no prior flying experience to graduation is quite expensive. But, as you pointed out, I don't think it's out of line with the other "academies". You're just getting a different kind of training - King Air instead of CFI.

Take a look at http://www.erau.edu/0Universe/05/newsreleases/2002/firstofficer.html

This is a brand new Embry-Riddle prgram they are just starting up in St Augustine, FL. They call it FOFT (First Officer Flt Trng), and I think it's something like TAB is doing. One thing that is required is a 4 year degree. I don't think there is any King Air flying, but I believe you would get a bunch of either turbo-prop or jet simulator time.

I don't think students going through the Riddle program will get a CFI. I think it's just a bunch of mult-crew/CRM stuff. Maybe somebody can check out the price of that program and give us a post. It would be interesting to see how it compares with TAB and others.

Bob the TriDriver

 

[bobbysamd]

Riddle P-F-T v. TAB

This thread addresses this new Riddle "program."

I know a little about Riddle, having worked at ERAU in Prescott. Frankly, if my flight training choices boiled down to this new Riddle program and TAB, I'd pay the TAB. At least with TAB, you get some turbine time. Although you pay for the turbine time, it's better than no turbine time at all.

The way ERAU invokes the pilot shortage sophism during these times of slow economy and furloughs continues to slay me.

 

[TriDriver]

sharpeye

Regarding "logging time while sitting in the back", I'm in the very fortunate position of not needing flight time. I instruct at TAB because I've loved my flying career and I'm there to try to mentor the next generation of airline pilots in the beginning of their career. I hope I help them get off to a good start.

When you get to a major airline that flies internationally, you will find that on the 2 pilot airplanes (747-400, 777, 767, MD-11, etc.) that a flight more than 8 hours requires a relief pilot (usually an additional first officer). When you fly an 8+ hour flight, everybody gets a couple hour break in the back during that time. When you fly more than 12 hours, there will be a complete augmented crew (2 captains and 2 first officers) on the flight.

Fortunately, when you get to that point in your career, you're not worried about a couple more hours in the logbook. A lot of pilots don't even keep a logbook at that stage in their career. You can always get a printout of your airline time from your company's computer (and it will show block time to include that time you were eating/sleeping in the back!). Airline types who do some Gen Av flying probably keep a logbook like I do.

At any rate, at my airline, all I'm interested in is getting paid for all that time my company requires me to be on the plane. You do get paid for sitting in the back on your international relief break, or even during deadheads where you're just riding around in the back because the company needs to reposition you somewhere.

I hope you all get to that point in your career where you're worried about the pay and not flight time for the logbook!!!

Good luck to everybody getting to that point sooner rather than later!!

TriDriver Bob

 

[172driver]

TriDriver,

That's great that you don't need the flight time and I admire you for still loving aviation enough at the end of your career to instruct. However, as sharpeye pointed out, there are many schools around this country where 3 pilots log PIC time simultaneously, including the one in the back. Quite possibly he was wrong about your school but you haven't addressed that. Are there other CFI's there who sit in the back? If so, do they log their time back there? They may not be in such a fortunate position as you and that PIC turbine time is golden if you're at the beginning of a career rather than the end, as you know. If you personally don't log it, do you consider it to be PIC time? Would you log it if you needed it?

It bothers me that people who may be interviewing against me use this practice of logging time. Maybe it doesn't belong in this thread, maybe it does. But...for the pilots who do log PIC in the backseat...why not just stay home and write it in...save yourself the time.