SWAPA wants all FAPA Pilots

[firstthird]

this is operation Saving C.J

grab you c.j., it's on.

 

[waveflyer]

Reddog- this can't be framed in remotely the same light as save Dave - it's not apples to oranges- that's apples to dog sh!t-
+1 to lynx and same pay rates.
Sorry- as much of a lottery ticket as it is for lynx- I agree- 100% we have to include them in the fold- it's that type of comparing and 'i had to do it so should they' 'i was so much more qualified' that led to every other major going down that route- it's a handful of pilots but is a strong message about our stance on outsourcing. That would also provide some furlough protection for the F9 guys.

Speaking of that- lack of growth during contract negotiations? I'm just more optimistic- MSP/ BOS/ LGA/ 'we never could have guessed' is how DEN grew so fast-DEN is still growing regardless of F9- we have to fight- but there's so much opportunity for SWA it's ridiculous.

Frontier guys should want to be a part of it.

 

[krewmeel]

Lynx

SWAPA may want the Lynx guys on the list with the same pay rates as the 737 but I suspect that Kelly is not planning on keeping Lynx around. Lynx is currently its own company with its own operating certificate and General Offices etc. It would be easy to spin them off. WN management will probably either exclude them in the F9 takeover agreement or is negotiating as we speak to sell them off to Skywest or Mesa or whatever. The Q400 is highly desirable these days and to have a turnkey operation is worth something....just not to WN. Operating commuter aircraft is not the LUV way....

 

[regionaltard]

If the Lynx pilots ended up with SW numbers they'd have to put a new picture next to "windfall" in the dictionary.

 

[737tanker]

I flew for two regionals myself but taking a FO from a prop and bring him/her to SWA makes no sense. Remember all the experience we had to get to fly for major/national?

What I see SWA and SWAPA doing with Lynx is what PanAm did with PanAm Express. That is the pilots for Lynx would be SWAPA pilots with a SWA senority number, but would be restricted to Lynx flying for at least 4 years. But when they come up to SWA and the 737s they would come with their original senority number. Again this is what PanAm did with PanAm Express and it prevents management from having the two groups compete against each other, as American and Eagle do.

 

[Cometman]

Ok Cometman, what gives, do you have multiple personalities or what bro...I just copied this from another thread in which you are trashing the F9 guys and say, "F9 does not derserve to jump over any SWA pilot. They are lucky to be offered a job. Let me say, I am not a pilot with SWA. I could only wish I had the same chance as F9 will have." Yet in this thread you claim "if we are taking both groups then it has to be a staple."

I am not a pilot with SWA. The word WE was used in the heat of writing. I got involved and probably wished I was part of them. It is good that you read the article that close because some articles you have to be careful when reading. Thanks for pointing that out. I will try and profread next time to make sure it doesn't happen again. However, as long as you got the point I was making.

 

[Cometman]

No kiddin, I noticed that also. Also another thing cometman, we dont get to decide, ya got it? I want to go with SWA, I am happy with whatever they come up with but again we dont have a whole lot to say about it. how about giving it a rest?

I believe you will have a vote on whether you accept the deal from SWAPA. If SWA gets the bid and your union doesn't agree with SWAPA then the deal is off. So, in reality you do have a say. In fact if SWA wins you will be the deciding vote. You either agree or it is over.

 

[Cometman]

Here is my concern as an F9 guy.

Lets say SWA prevails in the auction. SWA and F9 currently fly to 30 of the same cities from Denver. If SWA owns F9, they surely will not continue to operate all of those flights. Additionally, SWA was already planning on decreasing capacity by 5-6% this year alone.

If they are decreasing capacity system wide, and they want to decrease capacity in Denver, where are all of the F9 guys going to fly?

I am not against the SWA acquisition, but I fear that it will lead to a huge number of furloughs. SWAPA is saying that they want all of the FAPA guys on the list, but where will we be on that list and how many of us will remain active?

You have guys on the street now. You are in Chapter 11 and going to the auction blocks. Do you think SWA pilots should wind up out in the street?

 

[StaySeated]

I am not a pilot with SWA. The word WE was used in the heat of writing. I got involved and probably wished I was part of them. It is good that you read the article that close because some articles you have to be careful when reading. Thanks for pointing that out. I will try and profread next time to make sure it doesn't happen again. However, as long as you got the point I was making.

Congrats, you just earned the ignore function...GMAFB

 

[Cometman]

Congrats, you just earned the ignore function...GMAFB

Sorry you feel that way. I understand your frustrations.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

A couple of things:

Carl said Lynx was part of the deal,a nd they would only be flown by SWA pilots.

Look for TA2 to be coming VERY soon. This will show everyone the leverage that SWAPA has.

There will be no arbitration.

What if you are at the bottom of F9's list, and in the pool here at SWA. There has to be someone on here in that position.

We are overstaffed by 200 pilots, and have 43 to many airframes. F9 has 50 something acft. You do the math.

I am at the bottom of the list. With more cuts on the horizon, you can bet that I won't vote for any agreement that would have 600 new pilots to be added to the list, and get furloughed in Jan.

In the end, we all want it to be a good deal for everyone, and we all have to protect our interests........I have to protect mine!

In the Swapa call yesterday, it was said that fences were discussed between SWAPA and FAPA, they didn't breach the seniority list issue.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

I have two friends, yea I know hard to believe, who I have gone to the mat for that are in the pool. Guys who have worked hard and sacrificed greatly. I have asked before, where do the F9 guys see the furloughs and the poolies in all this? I can also tell you there are many poolies who are watching this conversation, just like f9's furloughs.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Hopefully they will come up with a good answer, but I believe that the active F9ers will go above the poolies. I believe the furloughed F9ers will be at the end. Now the question is what about the Lynx guys? Do they get a number above the poolies/furloughs? All tough questions to answer. Good luck to all involved.

 

[Cometman]

Is it possible that there are Lynx guys that could go ahead of F9 guys if they are all stapled. If SWA buys the holding company then I would assume pilots from both groups will be stapled. Interesting? How would F9 guys feel if Lynx guys were ahead of them on the final staple?

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Having asked the questions, you have people here, pilots and managment, who have friends/relatives who are in the pool and on the seniority list at F9. Do I think there might be a couple of newhire classes before the deal gets finished.......don't count it out!

 

[relief tube]

Well being a lynx employee I'd happily take a staple even if it costs me my job in the short term.

nice. u could just keep living with the folks at home until you get recalled, huh.

if this works out for lynx then they become the luckiest, most undeserving pilot group in the history of manned flight.

Going from no union and ********************ty pay and work rules at a carrier that could go tits up to now part of southwest.

All those guys should start playing the lottery cuz you all don't have a clue how ridiculously lucky you are.

Im not jealous at all

 

[DeucesWild]

I am not a pilot with SWA. The word WE was used in the heat of writing. I got involved and probably wished I was part of them.

'Heat of writing' ... You have got to be kidding me! Hahahahaha

Cometman, what gives?? So far you have have made 42 posts and all of them have been relating to the SWA/Frontier deal except one. You pretend to be an angry SWA pilot and have used the word 'staple' about 85 times in your combined posts??? Who are you and why are you trying to poison any possible deal (like you have any say in the matter of SLI)??

 

[airlinepilot]

Had a jumpseater yesterday (Dal Capt) that said his Dom Rep told him that SWAPA got the People Dept to do a search in their computers and that they found 450 Apps on file from F9 pilots.

 

[Cometman]

'Heat of writing' ... You have got to be kidding me! Hahahahaha

Cometman, what gives?? So far you have have made 42 posts and all of them have been relating to the SWA/Frontier deal except one. You pretend to be an angry SWA pilot and have used the word 'staple' about 85 times in your combined posts??? Who are you and why are you trying to poison any possible deal (like you have any say in the matter of SLI)??

Angr SWA Pilot? Just the opposite. I am all for SWA pilots. They should get a staple from F9. That is the only fair way. What makes you think I am not for SWA? You must have a lot of time on your hands if you are counting the number of posts I have. Don't worry about how many times I post. You should be worrying about whether your group is smart enough to take the offer SWA will give you.

 

[DeucesWild]

You must have a lot of time on your hands if you are counting the number of posts I have.

Hey Cometman, look under that cool comet picture of yours. What do you see??

 

[dude100]

As someone with CL65 in his profile, you should know better than to have a big ego about bringing regional guys on board. If the mainline carriers had fought for single lists in the '90s with their RJ pilots, we wouldn't have the massive mess that we do now in this industry. Those guys are airline pilots just like you are. Treat them like brothers.

I'm glad to see that SWAPA is pushing for a single list with everyone. It's an admirable position, and they should be commended.

Thanks bro! I'd buy you a beer anytime.:beer:

 

[Cometman]

Hey Cometman, look under that cool comet picture of yours. What do you see??

Never even noticed that. Good point. At least he doesn't have to go far to figure that out.

 

[Cardinal]

What if you are at the bottom of F9's list, and in the pool here at SWA. There has to be someone on here in that position.

There is at lest one pilot I know of who is Furloughed F9 and a SWA poolie. There may be more.

SWAPA got the People Dept to do a search in their computers and that they found 450 Apps on file from F9 pilots.

LOL. Including mine!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

There is at lest one pilot I know of who is Furloughed F9 and a SWA poolie.

How do you think he defines fair? Does anyone remember how the last 2 new hire classes came about? They were quickly thrown together made up of guys in the pool, and guys who had just interviewed during that short period of interviewing last year. Some of the guys in the pool couldn't get to class........so in the pool they remain.

You can draw your own conclusions, but who knows what is going to be the requirements by others to get on our seniority list. The definition of others is the ones not currently on it. Remember, there is no heavier burden than a lost opportunity.

Dick

 

[Prog 2/2]

I am still not too thrilled about this Lynx stuff. We cannot let this slip under the radar. I do not want small planes under the SWA name....at the same time unless "we" SWAPA are flying them...

I think you got it.

IMO, this deal is all about Lynx.

The rest is just smoke and mirrors.

 

[jonjuan]

There is at lest one pilot I know of who is Furloughed F9 and a SWA poolie. There may be more.

Good point. Don't see how someone at the bottom of the f9 seniority list would be able to jump ahead of the same people on his list just because he's in the wn pool. Being in a pool doesn't = seniority.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Good point. Don't see how someone at the bottom of the f9 seniority list would be able to jump ahead of the same people on his list just because he's in the wn pool. Being in a pool doesn't = seniority.

If you have your type, have the conditional offer from the people department, they could end up senior to ALL of the F9 pilots, don't be so short sighted. All it takes is the results of the urinalysis and being offered a class. And of course showing up.

The point I'm trying to make is ANYTHING is possible. If I'm in the pool, I'd be keeping in touch with the PD so they know my status, where I'm at and doing. I'd also be telling them what my availability is.

Dick

 

[California]

question for swa pilots.

think the swa pool will be considered during all this?

thanks

 

[waveflyer]

That's a good question rich- they say 200 pilots and 43 airplanes too much? We don't fly airplanes with less than 5 pilots- just doesn't add up-I think Swa is staying fluid until this and the pilot contract are done.

 

[firstthird]

question for swa pilots.

think the swa pool will be considered during all this?

thanks

I hope so but I won't lie, I see SWAPA's #1 job as preserving the careers of guys currently on the SWAPA list.

I think that 'throwing together some classes' probably is not going to happen, and if it did, they might end up junior to F9 guys if some kind of SLI takes place. we might lose the auction. We might structure it so that F9 operates separately. there are a lot of 'mights' still for any serious guessing.

I think that generally though, the cutoff for SLIs is usually when a deal is first announced. so if we end up winning an auction on Aug 17th and if there is some kind of agreement as to SLI, then any classes held in the fall would probably be junior to any F9 guys when they eventually integrate.

I know it sucks and I'd rather see organic growth. this merger/acquisition business is dirty and messy. but, I'm not Gary Kelly, so take my prognostications for what they are, WAGs. lots of ifs and probablys and maybes in there.

like anyone in any pool, I'd do my best to keep my current job and stay current in an aircraft and consider ALL your options. We flushed our FA pool a while back and the fact that we didn't flush the pilot pool at the same time is a good sign for me. I hope that our People dept realizes how much goes into just getting an interview here, much less getting the 'conditional offer' or "continue the process" whatever the lawyers are making the HR girls say these days.

good luck.