SWAPA wants all FAPA Pilots

[Cometman]

No regulations prohibit it, but the FAPA scope language does, and SWA would be required to adhere to the language unless they got FAPA to waive it. If SWA slowly started getting rid of F9 airplanes and using the old gates, slots, ramp workers, or anything for their use, then the scope clause kicks in and requires an integration.

So, what you are saying is that if SWA operates F9 as a seperate company they can never close the operation? If they do decide to close it they would have to take all the employees? That doesn't sound right. I think the regulations refer to one company merging both operations into one operation. I know some will say that if they use 50+% of the assets then the regulations would take hold. If SWA decided to close the doors what per centage of the assests would be kept? I think they could do just that. That is the reason why I think F9 should accept the offer if the offer is what everybody thinks.

 

[PCL_128]

So, what you are saying is that if SWA operates F9 as a seperate company they can never close the operation? If they do decide to close it they would have to take all the employees? That doesn't sound right. I think the regulations refer to one company merging both operations into one operation. I know some will say that if they use 50+% of the assets then the regulations would take hold. If SWA decided to close the doors what per centage of the assests would be kept? I think they could do just that. That is the reason why I think F9 should accept the offer if the offer is what everybody thinks.

You don't seem to understand that regulations are not the only thing in play here. Contracts are also at issue. The pilots at F9 are represented by FAPA, and they have a legally binding collective bargaining agreement. That CBA requires that if any airline purchases them and starts to use their assets for their own operation, they are required to integrate.

 

[Cometman]

So, when SWA starts to get rid of their aircraft and the writing is on the wall that their company is about to be gone, what does the contract say about that? A contract with no company doesn't seem to be worth much. What a gamble for F9 to make. It seems like if F9 should take a definite if they are offered it. I guess we will have to wait until the official bids are in and see what the 2 groups decide. If I was F9 I think I would want to take the best offer and not take a chance.

 

[crashpad]

Hey, life is a chance. It's just the carnage left behind by RAH at Midwest is still fresh in everyones' mind.

It's really a no-brainer. WN is a great major airline with very similar culture. RAH is a feeder with zero experience in running a major airline.

 

[Splert]

You don't seem to understand that regulations are not the only thing in play here. Contracts are also at issue. The pilots at F9 are represented by FAPA, and they have a legally binding collective bargaining agreement. That CBA requires that if any airline purchases them and starts to use their assets for their own operation, they are required to integrate.

What you are saying that as a condition of purchase F9/FAPA will not have to give that up like TWA/ALPA.

Should have been a MBA...

 

[PCL_128]

What you are saying that as a condition of purchase F9/FAPA will not have to give that up like TWA/ALPA.

Should have been a MBA...

Yes, that's correct, but FAPA is in a better position than TWA ALPA was, because they have two suitors rather than one. If they refuse SWA's demands to waive their scope, they have RAH in their back pocket that has vowed to operate them separately.

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

One thing you dont seem to understand is that FAPA has no say in which way Frontier goes, it is up to the bankruptcy judge, creditors, bidders, etc.

 

[Cardinal]

My thought is that IF (big IF) there are classes in the next 2 years while F9 is operating separately, then there's a glimmer of hope that the pool could get drained before the staple/SLI/whatever happens.

The "snapshot" for seniority purposes looks back to the date of the announcement of the deal, not consumation. Reference the Nicolau award, the reference date is the date the merger agreeement was first announced and put forward in bk court.

 

[4 Fan Trashcan]

The "snapshot" for seniority purposes looks back to the date of the announcement of the deal, not consumation. Reference the Nicolau award, the reference date is the date the merger agreeement was first announced and put forward in bk court.

I guess we'll just have to wait until Tuesday...and probably longer for the M & A lawyers to get into the language before we can make any proclaimations on when/how any snapshot would be taken.

 

[California]

I'm sure that SWA remembers the guys and gals who met the 1000 or 1300 PIC mins, got the type (the majority in last round), interviewed and then started smoking a pack a day while waiting for either the letter or call.

damn, that is funny! thank you, i needed that.

that was a longest three months of my life. (one month before the interview, and two months waiting to find out the results)

 

[PCL_128]

One thing you dont seem to understand is that FAPA has no say in which way Frontier goes, it is up to the bankruptcy judge, creditors, bidders, etc.

Yes, but if F9 goes with SWA without first securing scope relief from FAPA, then SWA is bound to the FAPA contract language.

 

[cherry20's]

Maybe I'm crazy, but if this does happen, I think SWA will just sell off Lynx to the highest bidder... Don't want to rain on the Lynx guys parade or anything. I don't have a dog in the fight really, just want to see it work out best for everyone involved.

Good luck

 

[Porch]

Maybe I'm crazy, but if this does happen, I think SWA will just sell off Lynx to the highest bidder... Don't want to rain on the Lynx guys parade or anything. I don't have a dog in the fight really, just want to see it work out best for everyone involved.

Good luck

Those routes compete directly with UAL & are lucrative routes. Without them, UAL has a monopoly on them. DEN-ASE was one of UAL's most profitable segments... Hence, the formation of Lynx

 

[Cardinal]

I guess we'll just have to wait until Tuesday...and probably longer for the M & A lawyers to get into the language before we can make any proclaimations on when/how any snapshot would be taken.

I researched the heck out of this, cause I wondered If i could perhaps get my sorry arse unfurloughed prior to a F9/RP/YX combo, bring a job to the integration, and thus beat out a few hundred furloughed folks for a number. But precedent just doesn't lie in that direction. The desire with establishing the date of the snapshot is to preempt any monkey business (ie suddenly recall all furloughees, start a hiring binge) by an airline trying to protect their own. We are where we are when the deal is presented. Period.

 

[Splert]

I researched the heck out of this, cause I wondered If i could perhaps get my sorry arse unfurloughed prior to a F9/RP/YX combo, bring a job to the integration, and thus beat out a few hundred furloughed folks for a number. But precedent just doesn't lie in that direction. The desire with establishing the date of the snapshot is to preempt any monkey business (ie suddenly recall all furloughees, start a hiring binge) by an airline trying to protect their own. We are where we are when the deal is presented. Period.

This will not go to arbitration - right?

 

[scoreboardII]

Yes, but if F9 goes with SWA without first securing scope relief from FAPA, then SWA is bound to the FAPA contract language

Which they won't, go to close without scope relief.

 

[Flying the Line]

Angr SWA Pilot? Just the opposite. I am all for SWA pilots. They should get a staple from F9. That is the only fair way. What makes you think I am not for SWA? You must have a lot of time on your hands if you are counting the number of posts I have. Don't worry about how many times I post. You should be worrying about whether your group is smart enough to take the offer SWA will give you.

How's that 10 bucks you spent on a new screen name working out for you sheardshaft?

 

[ofacegangsta]

ALPA fans are worked-up about two other unions working it out? Probably a big fan of when IACP became ALPA. We'll forgive you.

 

[Cometman]

How's that 10 bucks you spent on a new screen name working out for you sheardshaft?

Just wanted to let you know that if you think I am sheardshaft I am not.

 

[kwick]

No way a Frontier Captain should lose his seat.

The reason SW wants Frontier is because Frontier has been kicking their ass in Denver.

What makes SW pilots so arrogant?

The deal won't get done without a fair seniority agreement.

Safety alone dictates that you keep experienced Captains in the left seat and prevent a windfall for SW first officers.

Why not just follow the law rather than always trying to find a legal loophole?

Maybe the Frontier pilots can be made training Captains in order to show the SW guys how to fly automated aircraft more efficiently and more safely.

 

[spciii]

No way a Frontier Captain should lose his seat.

The reason SW wants Frontier is because Frontier has been kicking their ass in Denver.

What makes SW pilots so arrogant?

The deal won't get done without a fair seniority agreement.

Safety alone dictates that you keep experienced Captains in the left seat and prevent a windfall for SW first officers.

Why not just follow the law rather than always trying to find a legal loophole?

Maybe the Frontier pilots can be made training Captains in order to show the SW guys how to fly automated aircraft more efficiently and more safely.

Mr Kwick, no where in your rambling incoherent response did you come close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. We are all dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

BTW, if your feelings are indicative of the rest of FAPA, enjoy RAH.

 

[airlinepilot]

Hey Republic guys and gals.....where did the Midwest pilots end up on your seniority list? Are they still working?

 

[slaquer5]

Hey Republic guys and gals.....where did the Midwest pilots end up on your seniority list? Are they still working?

This is what i am confused about. Can someone, anyone please tell me how or why Republic would not be doing the same think to F9. Midwest was by far my favorite airline to fly for years and had an awesome group of pilots.

 

[huronip]

Hey Republic guys and gals.....where did the Midwest pilots end up on your seniority list? Are they still working?

Probably not going to get an answer to this on the Majors Forum. You need to post it on the Regionals Forum.

 

[Mach 80]

Wonder how many Frontier pilots are former Morris pilots who didn't want to go to SWA when SWA bought Morris. The seniorty difference of having gone then versus being forced to now might be huge. Life has some twists and turns sometimes.

 

[slaquer5]

Wonder how many Frontier pilots are former Morris pilots who didn't want to go to SWA when SWA bought Morris. The seniorty difference of having gone then versus being forced to now might be huge. Life has some twists and turns sometimes.

Only one that I know of and he is No. one at F9.He is over 60 so I am sure if he does not stay as a Captain in DEN he will retire. JMO

 

[shearedshaft]

How's that 10 bucks you spent on a new screen name working out for you sheardshaft?

What in the world does what he's saying have to do with me?

I don't have much to add on the Frontier acquisition, I suspect the outcome won't be pretty for anyone.

I also suspect we've given up our retro, but I don't have any evidence, other than the fact that SWAPA has stated that almost everything has been agreed to except for compensation.

Since we gave up $400 million in additional compensation by voting down the TA, I'll lay odds that our new compensation package will be about $287 million, with the company using $113 million from our paychecks to pay for Frontier, "Sorry guys, it's already spent. Enjoy the new airline. You sure helped!"

 

[Cometman]

What in the world does what he's saying have to do with me?

I don't have much to add on the Frontier acquisition, I suspect the outcome won't be pretty for anyone.

I also suspect we've given up our retro, but I don't have any evidence, other than the fact that SWAPA has stated that almost everything has been agreed to except for compensation.

Since we gave up $400 million in additional compensation by voting down the TA, I'll lay odds that our new compensation package will be about $287 million, with the company using $113 million from our paychecks to pay for Frontier, "Sorry guys, it's already spent. Enjoy the new airline. You sure helped!"

For some reason he thinks you and I are the same person. He accused me of being an angry SWA pilot. However, everything I said on this site is pro SWA. Oh well.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Only one that I know of and he is No. one at F9.He is over 60 so I am sure if he does not stay as a Captain in DEN he will retire. JMO

OK, everyone turn down your eyes, I'm about to do math in public.............His DOB is '52 so that means he'll be 60 in '12(don't carry those gozintas when you're sipherin).........so according to the guys who knew him at Morris, maybe he will comb his hair for once when he interviews!

Dick

 

[En Mort Main]

Southwest is by far one of my favorite airlines to travel with...The aircraft could use more luxury but the airline itself is tops. With that being said Southwest is about profits. No acquisition southwest has ever made has turned out beneficial for the airline being aquired. Why is there a belief that this will change?
How many southwest people entered their opinions in the NW/DAL and AWA/U.S. Airways intergration about what is fair...and these same people are now saying a staple is fair. And yet they say a staple of midwest onto republic would not be fair. Is this a case of i want my cake and eat it to.....I just want to recap what i'm saying in order to clarify it for some on this board.
People on here believe it is fair for WN to staple F9.
But those same people are saying it is not fair for RP to staple YX.
And hypothetically if RP wins the auction for F9 will the same WN people that believe the stable is fair still believe a staple of F9 onto RP to be fair?
Both of these are purchases not mergers. Is this a case of what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.

EN MORT MAIN